Princess 40 - Serious problems?

True Kwakkers, most of the oldies weeped a bit!

Now a good check for an engine oil leak, and one we use is the 'Ultra vilet dye' poured into the engine oil, and then run the engine with a UV lamp, any weeps show up immediately as bright yellow!

Cost £3 materials plus an hours labour, the dye can stay in afterwards.

Also works on cooling systems. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
"Nun's noonaa, "
They never get a chance to weep.
How can I put this gently, going from Teddington lock to Hampton Court(and even back again) is not counted as long journey by any one except ducks and Thames boaters.
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A nice film of diesel and oil keeps everything and anything from going rusty,plus of course a light coating of belt dust to finish off with .......

Some people boast that they keep their machinery so clean you can eat your dinner off it.....
Me.... I prefer the galley table.
 
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M Farter seems to leak oil all over the place, yet it never needs any oil in and goes from oil change to oil change, covering thousands of miles.

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Thats Diesel leaking all over the shop then /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

No wonder the old girl smokes.... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gifWell she did a bit, after having the engines put back in and zooming round to Conway. But kwackers mended all that. Well I think he repiped the bilge pump back to the diesel tank, which was a brilliant idea. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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he repiped the bilge pump back to the diesel tank, which was a brilliant idea. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Princess boats are built very well (I have one and love it to bits). I'd be concerned about it having no service history. It may be the anodes have not been maintained and the shafts may be corroded if they are leaking that badly and why isn't the bilge pump on 'auto'? As mentioned earlier in this thread, 200 hours it should be like new if properly maintained or symptoms such as you've described if the hours are low and it hasn't been maintained. Resale value will be affected. I nearly made exactly the same mistake on a Princess 360 at Penton Hook until an engineer friend of mine had a look and told me it could sink at any time and shouldn't be on the market (similar symptoms). Traced the life of the boat back (good 'ol Internet) and found it had been for sale with 3 other brokers in various parts of the UK with different sales patter at each (and different hours!). Penton continued to market it and stopped talking to me after I showed them the report.
If through a broker (stock boat) you have some protection (but normally only 3 months on engines). Privately you have none so have to be extra careful. If she's coastal, take her for a good sea trial - careful if she's inland as you may not be able to trial her properly and therefore not notice any latent or inherent defects.
Of course I could just be a cynic /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Good luck my friend, whatever decision you make. Fate is fate and you may end up with a bargain (most things can be 'fixed') or a money bucket (sorry, I forgot 'BOAT' stands for Bring Out Another Thousand anyway). /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I don't know what you lot mean - it can get very choppy moored up outside Hampton Court! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It's a long way from Hampton Court to teddington.... at 5 MPH /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Deleted User wrote:

"Princess certainly went through s few years in the 1990's when they fitted aluminium window frames with s/s covers but aluminium frame corrosion normally results in white powder substance. As you say this looks like ferrous corrosion so my guess is that the whole frame is s/s. Either way it should be dealt with

_______________________________________________________________

Deleted User : spot on as usual, and once again beating me to it, I was gonna say all that based of course on personnal experience on my P560. As its not white powder but rust it looks very strange have it looked at.
 
Hi I see the photos are of the stb engine, it looks like either the sump gasket or rear crank oil seal is leaking in one shot.

As its the stb engine and the oil flters are outboard of the shot then they are very awkward to remove hence when an engineer has unscrewed them oil will fall into the bilge, if hes not bothered, unlike myself he wont clean it up so that maybe where its from.
At that side of the engine are the raw water pump, that has an o ring that fails, also the oil pressure and gauge senders are there near the alternator, they leak sometimes.

If the breather filter hasnt been changed at regular intervals then that stops working and leaks oil, so could be that too as you dont know the service history.

Other things to look out for are on the stb engine, the anodes are not easy to get at to change, one needs removal of a water hose which in turn could lead to corrosion of the heat exchangers, ive worked on a P 40 quite recently and the stb engine is not easy to work on at all even with all the floor up.

An associate of mine has a 40 for sale on the East coast, I wonder if its that one, PM me with some details if you like or if you want an engine / machinery survey.
 
Oil leaks are not tolerable.
An oil leak can so easily turn into a burst and wreck £40k worth of engine.
I agree Volvos often show apparent oil seeps, this is due to light green showing black oil.
But a seep of that nature dries before it drips into the bilges.

In my experience if anyone spills oil during a filter change and cant be bothered to clean it out , then it will go the next time out, the engines will heat the oil and bilge water up so it mix and once on the plane the bilge water heads for the auto bilge pump.

As such the amount of oil in your photos is from a good current engine leak.
Somewhere that is not easy to find or expensive to fix, either leave it alone

or

go to the trouble to clean it up with old rags, dry the bilge water out and take it for a 10 mile high speed sea trial.


Oil leaks are not tolerable.



My 1993 boat with 2004 engines that dont leak is £110 000
(not what you are looking for but link is here just to show you there are older boats out there that are looked after and kept like new, you just need to keep looking until you find one, you could lay in my bilges with white trousers on eating off the floor !).

Princess 360 here
http://www.icvideo.co.uk/felix.html
 
Well I think he repiped the bilge pump back to the diesel tank, which was a brilliant idea.

Ahaa! Kwackers top quality marine grade bodge at work again I see! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Where is the old sod anyway...........havent heard from him for weeks now, must be cos LS is in the shed with the drinks cabinate locked! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom
 
Yep, I dipped the oil on both engines ....having 'supposedly' done only a mile since having it changed at the start of the season it was as black as the proverbial ace. I'm not that experienced with diesels but understood that is normal i.e. for the oil to go black straight away, whereas on my petrol engined cars it stays clear for a while.
 
The engine survey I had from RK Marine before purchase of my current boat (also 2004 Volvo's) indicated:

sump gasket outboard side leak
oil leak from reverse gear oil cooler
oil leak from bolt hole above blanking plate

Conclusion: Engines in good condition

When I spoke to them they said D12's always leak a bit, the leaks don't get worse with age, and not to worry about it.

Edit: two seasons and 200 hrs later, they're so far correct, the leaks have not got any worse, and i've not had to top up the oil between services.
 
Surely the leaks in your report are the black marks seen around the engine joints, these accumulate as I said.

Surely you do not have visible oil laying on top of your bilge water.

The photo above appears to show a wide area where oil has run down from under the engine to the bilges.

If it is spilt oil as the engines heat this oil it should get so thin that it disappears completely as it runs into the bilges, unless there is a constant feed which indicates a crack/failed gasket that could go completely which could empty the sump and destroy the engine.
I suppose it depends on use and this isnt really relevant to any boats that may only manage 20 hours a year round the solent

Trouble is many engine cracks only open up through heat and stress, once cooled they are not visible.
 
Thanks to everyone for their input - instead of replying to individual comments I'll try to cover them in this one. This is a boat on brokerage btw, so no guarantees.

The hull is stained outboard of both engines (i.e. the first two pics. are 1 of each side) which I found odd as only one engine has its oil filters on that side? If Pauls analysis is correct and either the sump gasket and/or the rear crank seal is leaking then that's going to be a pig of a job, and I also expected the bilge pumps to have dealt with the liquid in the bilge (it was half an inch deep at least under the tread plates between the front of the engines).

WRT to the P40 on the East coast, it's not that one although I have been for a viewing of it, and now I'm getting an 'eye' for the not-so-right, hence this post.

I'm impressed with the UV dye to detect oil leaks - I'll have to remember that one and see if I can find some. Good tip!

I concur that Princess boats are very well built and so that is why I have moved on from looking at Fairline (which was my original choice) to this model. I also mop up oil spills when working on cars and so am rather appalled at the (lack of) quality workmanship that seems to have gone on here.

I am beginning to think that this one needs to go on the back burner and, unless it becomes bargain of the century, keep on looking around at the others on the market. It's surprising that, when you narrow down your search to one or two specific models, there isn't actually that much choice out there. I'm only looking in this country, and have only found a half-dozen or so. I've just been 'phoned about another that's new to market, so I'll carry on looking.

Thanks again to all that have read and contributed to this post - it's certainly elicited the most responses in a thread that I've started since being on here :-)
 
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