Price Outlook?

I don't know, maybe we'll all put a hole on the bottom and collect on the insurance?

In any case, I can't wait until I can afford a 35' diesel express. Maybe in that scenario more people here would realize that diesel is the most sensible way to go?
 
As opposed to guess work ,some actual real world events,my chum has just put in an offer on an old ?(1992) twin screw flybridge with the very unfashionable small engine(ie.non gas guzzling) option and was told in no uncertain terms to take a hike.
His offer was within 10% of the asking price and was being bought "as seen".
The prices are going down scenerio has yet to reach this seller,perhaps someone ought to mention it to him!
 
There's a lot of doom and gloom going on here. IMHO, used boat prices will be forever supported by new boat demand. Whilst new boat prices continue to go up as they do, manufacturers report brisk business and there are waiting lists on many models, used boat values will be supported and this is the situation which still pertains at the moment. If the new boat market bombs, then so will the used boat market but that has'nt happened yet and I don't believe it will until the economy starts to dive which it has'nt yet
I will agree with gludy though on one point. IMHO the cost of berthing and fuelling bigger older used boats is making some punters look at newer smaller ones although quite why he thinks that semi-d and d boats are exempt from this, I don't know. Nothing to do with the fact he's about to buy one I guess /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Certainly there are some sellers out there who don't seem to believe that new/newish boats do depreciate contrary to what the salesman tells them and do need to be more realistic about asking prices but that does'nt constitute a general fall in used boat values
 
Displacement boats I will agree with but semi-d boats use even more fuel than planing boats at the kind of speeds they're capable of so you could argue that semi-d boats are more susceptible to the red diesel issue, not less. Some owners might buy semi-d boats and plan to cruise them at d speeds but my guess is that most thrash along at planing speeds just like the rest of us
 
Mike
Many use SD boats like the Fleming 55 cruising at 8/9 knots in this months mag.
basically an SD hull is a hull that performs in a stable fashion at low speed but carries a fuel penalty at high speed - so its a craft that should basically be used at low speed butt offers the high speed when needed to make it to the lock on time etc.
Even then - the fuel is not so bad. My SD boat did offer econo9mic low speed cruising whilst staying stable with stabilsers etc and I could go at 18 knots and get the same consumption as the planing boat of the same size at 26 knots. So I could choose to do moderate high speed and use the same as the planing boat. If i went at the same speed as the same size planing boat there was a big fuel penalty.
My next boat will probably have 3 engines - one small 300 hp job for the bulk of the slow speed cruising which is the only way most large UK cruising boats will have to go in the future.

Having tried both planing and SD I would never go back to planing.
 
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Displacement boats I will agree with but semi-d boats use even more fuel than planing boats at the kind of speeds they're capable of so you could argue that semi-d boats are more susceptible to the red diesel issue, not less. Some owners might buy semi-d boats and plan to cruise them at d speeds but my guess is that most thrash along at planing speeds just like the rest of us

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this is so true, every GB which has a semi planning hull (not SD as most think) I see is always cruising at 20 knots

it is also true what you say about depreciation from a certain point of view, production for new boats is always on high demand.
One of the reasons for this is that unlike 10/20 years ago all the big famous brands have so much an international market, so a crisis in the UK cause of the red diesel issue might affect but not as much as one might think....
I think yacht builders are passing a period of gold which might go on for another 10/15 years, unless a big crisis hits the world
the main reasons are the following:
- on global terms the world is getting richer
- nearly everyone wants a boat 2/1
- the sea is one of the only place where there is space
 
The semi planing hull is just another name for a semi-displacement hull - they are one in the same.
There are many degrees of SD hulls ranging from near to displacment to nera to planing.
When fuel prices bite they will offer comfortable slow speed cruising which a planing hull cannot do as well.

Almost every Grand Banks made - the vast majority are not even capable of doing 20 knots let alone cruising at that speed!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
The semi planing hull is just another name for a semi-displacement hull - they are one in the same.
There are many degrees of SD hulls ranging from near to displacment to nera to planing.
When fuel prices bite they will offer comfortable slow speed cruising which a planing hull cannot do as well.

Almost every Grand Banks made - the vast majority are not even capable of doing 20 knots let alone cruising at that speed!!

[/ QUOTE ]

the recent ones 90s onward with good engines all cruise and plane at 15 knots plus
had an enquiry for a 42 EUROPA once from a customer and the boat could do 17/18 knots of max with 2 x 230 HP Cats this model was a 1988/89, the owner advised us that he used to cruise at 14/15 knots comfortably when necessary
now all 42 of that time have those engines and if you go for a more recent 90+ they have all also the 320 HP which give 20 knots plus
as for the hulls according to surveyors they are not the same as semi-disp hull is flat aft to my knowledge while a semiplanning has a slight vee-ish -10 deg aft, making it seaworthy on planning speeds
all GB have a slight vee-ish, I used to think the same for GB but many surveyors corrected me on this issue...
 
Similar real world experience. I fancied a 47ft sports cruiser which was an exceptional example but (in my opinion) overpriced. I offered nearly 15% less than the asking price. He came down 9% and we parted at that point. I note that the boat is still for sale some 9 months later at the same high asking price. If he had sold to me, the interest he would have made plus berthing, insurance, maintenance, etc. would have more than made up the difference.

Many others which I know have been on the market for a long time have not changed their asking price.
 
[ QUOTE ]
the recent ones 90s onward with good engines all cruise and plane at 15 knots plus
had an enquiry for a 42 EUROPA once from a customer and the boat could do 17/18 knots of max with 2 x 230 HP Cats this model was a 1988/89, the owner advised us that he used to cruise at 14/15 knots comfortably when necessary
now all 42 of that time have those engines and if you go for a more recent 90+ they have all also the 320 HP which give 20 knots plus
as for the hulls according to surveyors they are not the same as semi-disp hull is flat aft to my knowledge while a semiplanning has a slight vee-ish -10 deg aft, making it seaworthy on planning speeds
all GB have a slight vee-ish, I used to think the same for GB but many surveyors corrected me on this issue...

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The claim was cruising at 20 knots and the vast majority simply cannot do that and indeed your own figures support that.

I know that the maximum speed of some recent ones - very few sold can actually get over 20 knots.

As regards hulls - I think the surveyor is forming his own rules - there are a multitude of hull shapes between planing and displacment all of whcih can be called semi-displacment or semi-planing if you wish. There is no laid down defintion that states why one can be called semi-planing and the other semi-displacement. Its an almost infinite variaty of hull shapes.

Basically comparing my SD and planing hulls for the same size boat:-

The planing hull offers poor slow speed ride because it is a flat bottomed planing hull but does offer a typically hard high speed ride when it is planing at say 26 knots - its designed to do that.
The SD hull offer a greatc slow speed ride and with stablisers no roll and in addition it offers a cruising speed of about 17/18 knots using the same fuel mpg as the planing boat at 26 knots so the cost in fuel at low speeds is many times less and the penalty at higher speed is it takes abouty 25% longer to get there for the same MPG but the ride is still very much better - think of it as losing speed for the same fuel consumption rather than more fuel consumption at the same speed.

If taken to 25 knotst the SD hull would use almost twice as much fuel as the planing hull.

So used in a sensible manner an SD hull can crusise fast but not as fast as the planing hull whilst offering proper low speed performance in comfort which the planing hull cannot match.

I found that with the SD hull you either went at 8.5 knots or went at 17/18 knots - there was no economy saving worth having going at in between speeds.
 
still I think the argument Mike is making is that many Planning boats, can cruse econmically at 17/18 knots (planning) while SP or SD hulls cants as they much more fuel then him
you are right the difference between SD and SP hull is minimal but it exists
 
I do not think that anyone can properly define with any authority the difference between Sd and Semi- planing.

Taking a planing boat at the slower planing speeds then this is often not an economic speed. The worst economy is when just on the plane but as you increase speed up to the full cruising speed the mpg figure is very flat so 18 knots can use the same mpg as 26 knots, Then past the 26 knots upwards the fuel use rockets as the boat is pushed to max speed.

So back to my two boats - it would not make much sense for me to use the planing boat to plane at 18 knots as i would use the same fule as at 26 knots.

I am therefore still lost on what point is being made /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Your logic on this is so twisted but I understand your reasoning, however in my experience most people like to cruise any distance at about 20knts, +/-2knts doesn't really matter. So assuming there are only two types of hull, SD and planing, SD boats always use more fuel at that speed than a planing boat.
At displacement speeds they are fairly equal, but in practice for many reasons previously discussed, planing boats seem to give better mpg at low speeds.
Also for most people using their boats for leisure purposes, they either go fast at sea when the weather suits or not at all, or go slow in harbours, rivers, canals and estuaries etc... so a comfortable low speed ride is not that important.
So the original point was I think that SD boats will depreciate more than planing boats, I would agree with this because for most people they use too much fuel at the speeds they want to go.
So if I was in the market for a 45' boat in 2009 and fuel consumption was a major concern, I personnaly would buy a planing sports cruiser with outdrives or IPS in preference to a SD hulled boat and accept any compromises in accomodation etc.. This is because at all speeds I want to travel it will be more economical.
 
I think you are missing the main points.

1. A flat bottomed planing boat in any sort of sea will roll all over the place att slow speed/ Its not on the same comfort level as an SD boat at those low speeds and even more so on an SD boat with stablisers. Planing boats are not as stable art low speeds because the design needs the speed to make them very stable and it does - when they are planing.
So in practice a planing boat is not really an option for long distances at 8 knots in any sort of sea.

2. In my example - at 18 knots in the SD hull I use the same mpg as the planing boat at 26 knots BUT slowing down in the planing boat does not change the mpg much so slowing down to 18 means that you are near enough using the same fuel as the SD hull but at this speed the SD hull is a much nicer ride - IMHO a very much nicer ride.

3. At 26 knots cruising as per my example boat the SD hull is not viable because fuel use is so high - the planing boat reigns supreme for high speed crusing - that is whatr it is designed for.

My original point was that SD boats will depreciate less because they will not be so effected by the red issue because their true mode of opertion is slow with the occasional higher speed run or accepting a medoim speed run eg 18 knots whilst using the same fuel as a planing boat doing 26 knots. ASt least the SD boat has the slow option the planing boat does not have that with any form of comfort in any form of decent sea. In flat calm - yes it can work well at low speed but as a crusing boat you would never go that route.
 
I understand perfectly, but i don't think most buyers want that, they want to crusie at 20knts ish economicaly, SD boats can't do that.
Where they want to go slow its not rough, so a planing hull is acceptable. Also most if not all SD hulls are shaft driven, shafts mean inefficient propulsion so more fuel used, therefore they just will not be as popular.
 
We both agree that where people wish to cruise economically at the higher speeds, sat 20 knost plus then the planing boat is the way to go.

Nearly all long distance cruisers are either D or SD for reasons I have already outlined.

However increasingly those who will to cruise fast will be reduced as fuel prices increase. Apart from a blast in the bay, the future of cruising MoBos lies with the slower speed D and SD boats.

Another major factor you seem to ignore is the comfort of getting there. I have done both types and there is no doubt at all that planing boats ride hard on the surface and are far less comfortable than SD or D boats. My partner takes a lot of pushing to get onto a planing boat because she has become used to the comfortable ride of an SD boat. I agree with her. I would never want a planing boat again.

Why do you think it is that almost every cruising boat is a D or SD hull? Fleming, neslon, Marlow, Grand Banks, almost every Dutch make, AquaStar etc?

I know someone who had an aft cabin 42 foot SD boat doing 8 to 9 knots and give him almost 4 mpg in comfort. That is increasingly the future of boating.
 
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