Practical method to polish diesel / stable door after horse gone.

[SiteSurfer]

Yesterday - after a cracking (but a bit bouncy) sail into Portsmouth the engine (which had been working well for the 9 previous hours) died as we passed Gosport Marina. Having been discussing changing the boat out loud with my crew, I suspect that I deserved this bit of revenge by her.

I sailed onto a spare bouy and did all the normal stuff you would associate with what sounded like fuel starvation, on inspecting the paper pre-filter the bottom bowl was full of sludge, and no fuel was getting through to the engine. Working our way further up the supply chain I discovered that in a likelihood the pickup pipe is blocked with crud as I can neither suck nor blow down it.

What is irksome is that the tank is 3 years old (which I replaced after discovering the old steel one had corroded inside) and is one of these : http://tektankslimited.com/43-litre-fuel-tank-tt-5638-650-x-350-x-230-336-p.asp which doesn't have a bottom drain fitted. I thought I had been quite conscientious in adding diesel treatment every fill and being careful to try and keep a topped up tank. Clearly though I have had quite an awakening for even that complacency.

What I need to do now is to (I believe it's called) polish the fuel, have looked at some options and see that almost all require the bottom drain on the tank. As I can, albeit with a struggle, slide the fuel tank out to inspect it after disconnecting the deck filler - it should be possible to crack off the inspection hatch on the top and get all the gubbins out to clean it.

That aside - what to do with the approx 30 litres of fuel left? Should I bin it or attempt to clean it? I do have a filter like this : https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8...59&hvtargid=aud-443285814371:kwd-303817400809 which will start to help but I think I need to go further.

Has anyone a simple diagram for something that is made of parts that I could order online from Amazon/EBay which can filter from a fuel can to a fuel can and operates off 12V? I can mount it all on a chunk of ply etc, but just want a steer on the type of filter I should be ordering. Clearly - if the cost is hugely more than the price of the diesel it's not a totally realistic solution although it may be a useful tool to drain the tank yearly and do some ongoing preventative maintenance.

Finally, I'm intending to blow out the fuel line from the fuel tank all the way to the secondary filter, and then the return from the engine to the tank (they are all flexible pipes), ideally with some compressed air from a couple of PC blower cans - and then run some clean diesel through those (polishing it afterwards of course) before reconnecting the whole lot. I have heard that the cans of compressed air carry some moisture - anyone got any experience of this? Don't want to add to the problem. Alternative is to completely replace the fuel lines and CAV filter as they are at most 3 metres long.

Any ideas gratefully taken on board, thankfully it's not 100's of litres of fuel - but the breakdown of the engine whilst at sea is the same problem for everyone so if a solution to polish the contaminated fuel isnt financially viable I'll just bin it and start over.

 

[pmagowan]

The cost is likely to be more than the deisel but why not install a fuel polishing system into the fuel system. All you need is a pipe back to the tank (bypassing the engine) and a pump. You can then circulate the fuel through a filter. Get a double filter system so that you can run off one and have a spare and you then have a permanent fuel polishing system and a spare filter you can simply switch to if one gets blocked.
In the end of the day though it might be easier just giving everything a good clean, discarding the diesel and starting again with a strong anti-bug dose and new filter. I use a racor filter because it is very easy to change but more expensive than the standard Cav types.

 

[SiteSurfer]

I've found these : https://www.dieselpartsdirect.co.uk/filtration/racor/racor-snapp-filter/racor-snapp-marine-fuel-filter-assembly-with-drain.htm which seem to be ideal as an alternative to the CAV filter.

I think I may well just change all the lines whilst I am at it - for the sake of 20 quids worth of pipe, so it would then be ideal to put in a 3 way diverter after the pre-filter, a 12V pump and then put another 3 way on the return line and back to the tank - is that about right?

I am minded though that I probably need to purchase 2 filters, so that I can replace the one I used to polish the fuel initially!

 

[SiteSurfer]

What's the normal micron folks use? 2,10,30?

 

[pmagowan]

Look at your engine manual. There will normally be a filter on the engine of a very small filter size IIRC ~2-5micron then the prefilter is normally significantly larger but then with a big element like a racor I think you can get away with a fine filter. I use the standard racor turbine filters and they are easy to change (nice big handle to screw off top, pop out filter and pop in new one). I prime with a bulb pump in the fuel line which makes life a lot easier. Just put lid on loosely and squeeze until fuel starts to overflow, tighten lid and away you go. Filter changes are no longer fiddly and you never lose a washer in the bilge!

Those snapp ones look interesting but I suspect they are solving some problems that don't really exist with their standard filters.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Hmmm, I think Volvo like to keep detail like that away from plebs like me
Had a look at the filter online but can't find a specification for microns - checked against several OEM ones too, keen to sell me one but not keen to tell me about its spec other than basics.

The Snapp filter appeals to me as the hose tails come with it and to be fair it looks a lot easier for servicing and to be able to pop a new one in.

 

[lpdsn]

I suffered from fuel starvation issues for a good few years - very long run of copper pipe that was getting clogged.

Firstly, I can very strongly recommend fitting a vacuum gauge between primary filter and lift pump. Really very strongly. What it allows you to do is monitor the condition of the system so that you don't attempt a dodgy harbour entrance with the engine just about to stall. Cost me about €30 to fit one but one day it might very well save the boat.

Secondly, I found a simple fuel polisher - maybe even calling that is an exageration - filtered fuel transfer pump is perhaps more accurate - very easy to make. I use motor bike filters and a cheap 45lph diesel pump - all bought off Chinese websites. Make sure you install it so that an on off switch is within reach when you're using it.

I suspect much of what was getting into my tank was coming from cans that had been left with a dribble of diesel in the bottom. Cleaning them helps but I now always filter when transferring to and from cans.

To clean the tank I pumped as much of the contents as I could through the filter into cans.

In the end your primary filter is as good a fuel polisher as you'll get, with the proviso that you need the fuel gauge to monitor its condition, so when cleaning the tank after I'd emptied it as much as possible and given the remainder an overdose of bug killer I just ran the engine until confident that the amount filtered (I reckon my fuel system puts circa 45l/hour through the primary filter) well exceeded the contents of the tank.

The tank itself was pretty clean and I'm lucky to have a decent inspection hatch.

My other problems were the pipes that always seemed to have a pressure drop across them. It is basically a very long run of copper pipes - approx 8m length finger in the air. A clean filter was still giving me 5"Hg vacuum. I got a cheap air compressor (£7 from a pound shop) and blew the pipes through. Got 2 to 3ins Hg after that.

 

[zoidberg]

A slightly different approach....

I trundled down to a nearby car breakers whose owner is keen on 'ideas', and came away with a robust fuel filter from a diesel 4 x 4 , and associated 12v fuel pump with cabling and coarse debris filter attached. £12.

A cheap 12V electric oil extractor pump from eBay would do just as well.

Plus, of course, the obligatory 'small piece of plywood'.....

 

[SteveGorst]

Having just been through this myself I replace the primary filter the pipework and the dip pipe. The old dip pipe was very thin and blocked very easily. I have replaced it with a 10mm ID one from Tek Tanks so that is probably what you are operating with anyway. What might interest you is that I replaced the filter with a Racor type turbine filter but a chinese copy. https://www.aimtools.co.uk/products/482720-racor-type-diesel-filter-fg500?variant=32291730122. Despite reports to the contrary the one I got was actually very well made and has metric ports so its very easy to connect to. No more bleeding needed just fill it up put the lid on and start the engine.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Thanks for all the great advice, right now - in order to get back going, I think I will replace all the old (1980's) fuel tubing and install a Racor 500FG in place of the current CAV filter.
Then I'll devise a method to extract the fuel from the tank and polish it into cans using that filter (and afterwards replace the insert), then refill the tank after cleaning.

I'm just staggering at the cost of the Racor filter, but being in a hurry and not having the luxury of waiting a week or so for delivery - not a lot of choice.

 

[sarabande]

The forumite who really knows about these things is Superheat. Last year he specced a simple system, (a copy of something he has been using for a long time).

The pump is an ebay Facet type

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...1313&_nkw=12v+diesel+pump+facet+type&_sacat=0

and the filter body and filter are Baldwin OEM kit (B10-Al) and filter a PF10 (both pieces of kit do the same job as a Racor)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Baldwin-...901300&hash=item213b6c7b41:g:ClYAAOSwlL1as6Tv

You will need adapters and pipe, both of which will be available from your local hydraulics people. Pump must be set up to draw fuel through the filter, not force fuel into filter.


The system can be set, with a decent length of inlet and return pipes, to extract fuel from the tank and deliver either back to the tank for polishing, or to a can for storage or removal.


The company Calcor have a good service desk, BTW.

 

[SteveGorst]

I'm just staggering at the cost of the Racor filter, but being in a hurry and not having the luxury of waiting a week or so for delivery - not a lot of choice.

My chinese copy arrived in a couple of days off Amazon posted from within the UK but I think they are sold out now, I guess I was just lucky. Sorry to here you may have to pay the full price, ouch!

 

[Stemar]

The Racor filter looks like a decent bit of kit, but it's definitely priced as premium kit. I did the same as Zoidberg, but got a matching pair. Some taps and pipe from ASAP and I've got a system that allows me to switch filters in seconds and change the blocked one while the engine's running.

 

[BelleSerene]

I'm just staggering at the cost of the Racor filter, but being in a hurry and not having the luxury of waiting a week or so for delivery - not a lot of choice.

Stagger no more. If you’re happy to, you could do as this forumite did [ http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?463929-Facor-fuel-filter-recommendation-(fake-Racor-500FG) ]. For the unit, type ‘Racor 500FG’ into eBay.

I copied him and am very happy with the result for ~£60 or £70. Do follow his advice to smooth off rough edges, replace the O rings and replace the crap filter that comes with it with a proper Parker Racor one (2010TM; eBay will oblige). 10 micron is arguably a bit fine, but the filter has such a large surface area compared with the modest fuel consumption of your boat’s engine that it’s fine and gives you comfort that small particles aren’t getting through.

 

[ip485]

There are companies that will come to you remove the panel on top of the tank or cut an inspection panel, pump the fuel through industrial polishers and return. The advantage is high powered pumps. The trouble is with most DIY kit there isnt enough pressure to stir up the crud on the bottom of the tank so next time out in some chop it contaminates the filter / fuel line again. I had a very similiar experience. As I was writing on another thread once it has happened you end up checking every time you take fuel. Pump a little through a diesel funnel to check for crud or water or even into a big glass jar and have it look to check its ok.

 

[lpdsn]

The trouble is with most DIY kit there isnt enough pressure to stir up the crud on the bottom of the tank so next time out in some chop it contaminates the filter / fuel line again.

That's why I periodically pump out most of the fuel then run the engine on the last 5 or 10l. It works to clear the system. I ran out of fuel a week ago after motoring for 5 days during the Scottish wind strike. I started filling the main tank from a spare can and was underway again in about ten minutes. Refuelled and checked the vacuum gauge which was only between 3 & 4 ins/Hg, so the previous cleaning attempts had worked (at last!).

 

[LittleSister]

I've found these : https://www.dieselpartsdirect.co.uk/filtration/racor/racor-snapp-filter/racor-snapp-marine-fuel-filter-assembly-with-drain.htm which seem to be ideal as an alternative to the CAV filter.

Those snapp ones look interesting but I suspect they are solving some problems that don't really exist with their standard filters.

I was very interested in the Racor Snapp filter, until I read somewhere hidden away in their bumph it is to be located outside the engine compartment. (I guess this is to do with lack of fire resistance - its upper operation limit is specified as 66 degrees C.) My current CAV filter is in the engine compartment, and an alternative location would be tricky.

p.s. Now found the reference: 'The Snapp filter is designed for use outside of the engine compartment so will meet Boat Safety Scheme requirements when installed properly.'

 

[SiteSurfer]

I am delighted to have found a 500FG copy that will ship before this weekend, have ordered 2 Racor original filter elements and all the gubbins to make a polishing circuit including all the taps and Y pieces.

This weekend will be spent removing crud from the tank and reworking the supply lines/filters/polishing.

Thanks - I will update the thread once it's done.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Dammit - one thing I should have asked, the copy filter unit looks like it comes with 10mm hose tails, which is a bit big for my 5/16 pipe (8mm) - does any of you fine folks know what the thread size is in the unit so that I can order some 8mm hose tails for it?

 

[martinaskey]

Suspect the OP has enough advice now but just to add my cheap and cheerful experience .............. My filler is on the top of the tank, I insert a length of stiff plastic tube down to the bottom of the tank and then pump out using a 12volt diaphragm pump (£10) to a clear container. I move the pick-up around to try to agitate any contamination. The first year I did this the material coming out was clearly water contaminated and had bits in it (hadn't been touched for 10 years !), after that not so bad. Once the fuel coming out looks clean I stop and treat the rest with one of the normal additives. To be honest I just dispose of the contaminated fuel - more hassle than it is worth to clean albeit that was about 8L one year.
Martin