powerboat accident Southampton water (Hamble)

[henryf]

Read the article starting page 78 of this months magazine.





https://www.justgiving.com/Laura-dredge/

It seems wrong that Southampton hospital doesn't have ECMO capability being so closely involved with the sea.

Henry

 

[MapisM]

You mean the article on the paper magazine, I suppose?
I only see the reference to ECMO on the webpage you linked.

 

[ChrisJefferies]

You mean the article on the paper magazine, I suppose?

Yep, we've got a four-page feature on the crash, including first-person reports from Peter Dredge, Simon Dredge and Simon Wood Power

 

[jfm]

Thanks for chiming in Pennpromo. I read the MBY article last night - it was a very close-up account of the events and for example that bit of detail about Peter's dive to rescue Simon was a gripping read. Also I had no idea even what an ECMO was - I'll make a donation. As I said above the end outcome of this is that no thrid parties were hurt, all 4 on the boat are recovered. It's easy to apply hindsight but if you take away all hindsight for a moment this was a freak accident.

As a complete aside, I got an amateurish taste of "hooking" and "rolling", aged 18. I was at imperial College London and they had a few spare £££ and gave the water ski club money to buy a ski boat. We skied at Canary wharf in those days, before docklands was built. I was chief boat buyer so bought a bright yellow Delta. Anyone remember them? Decked over apart from the 2 man cut out, ford 3 litre V6 driving a straight shaft, no gearbox and just the ford clutch operated by a hand lever, to create neutral. Fine pitched prop spinning at 5000rpm. Half way along the keel there was a skeg. I launched it on southport's marine lake and took it for a blast. Quite nice, till you turn a bit fast and the keel bites. I rolled it 180 degrees. No harnesses, helmets, risk assessment. As it sank (in about 5 feet of water - we could stand up) my passenger and I rolled it 180 degrees underwater. It settled on its keel. I borrowed my dad's Ford Granada estate (remember them!) and with a long bit of rope dragged the boat to the edge of the lake, and got it on trailer. It went ok after some WD40. Anyway, the MAIB report brought back a pretty vivid memory of the sideways deceleration when the thing hooks (and I suspect mine was 100th of the forces of yours)

Anyway, every day is a school day! Glad you're ok.

 

[benjenbav]

Thanks for chiming in Pennpromo. I read the MBY article last night - it was a very close-up account of the events and for example that bit of detail about Peter's dive to rescue Simon was a gripping read. Also I had no idea even what an ECMO was - I'll make a donation. As I said above the end outcome of this is that no thrid parties were hurt, all 4 on the boat are recovered. It's easy to apply hindsight but if you take away all hindsight for a moment this was a freak accident.

As a complete aside, I got an amateurish taste of "hooking" and "rolling", aged 18. I was at imperial College London and they had a few spare £££ and gave the water ski club money to buy a ski boat. We skied at Canary wharf in those days, before docklands was built. I was chief boat buyer so bought a bright yellow Delta. Anyone remember them? Decked over apart from the 2 man cut out, ford 3 litre V6 driving a straight shaft, no gearbox and just the ford clutch operated by a hand lever, to create neutral. Fine pitched prop spinning at 5000rpm. Half way along the keel there was a skeg. I launched it on southport's marine lake and took it for a blast. Quite nice, till you turn a bit fast and the keel bites. I rolled it 180 degrees. No harnesses, helmets, risk assessment. As it sank (in about 5 feet of water - we could stand up) my passenger and I rolled it 180 degrees underwater. It settled on its keel. I borrowed my dad's Ford Granada estate (remember them!) and with a long bit of rope dragged the boat to the edge of the lake, and got it on trailer. It went ok after some WD40. Anyway, the MAIB report brought back a pretty vivid memory of the sideways deceleration when the thing hooks (and I suspect mine was 100th of the forces of yours)

Anyway, every day is a school day! Glad you're ok.

As they say J, "you'll never get to heaven in an old ford car"....

'cos an old ford car,
won't go that far.

 

[MapisM]

I rolled it 180 degrees

Blimey, that's something bound to spoil your day for good.
Do you remember by chance whether you were turning to port or stbd, and if the prop was r/h or l/h?

The first time I sat at the helm of a Correct Craft, the owner (a former tournament skier, who asked me to pull him because his usual driver wasn't around that day) told me in not unclear words to reverse at the end of the slalom course ALWAYS and ONLY circling to stbd, because the boat had a l/h prop.
According to him, doing the opposite could have been much more risky.

I can't confirm how much difference it really makes, though.
I never went as far as capsizing any boat - not so far anyway, phew!

 

[rafiki_]

A really powerful article, and a desperate time for Simon's parents. Fortunately a good ending for all. I would not run at 100 mph in that area, but I am not an experienced powerboat racer. I know that car race drivers always push the limits, boat drivers will be no different.

 

[jfm]

Blimey, that's something bound to spoil your day for good.
Do you remember by chance whether you were turning to port or stbd, and if the prop was r/h or l/h?

The first time I sat at the helm of a Correct Craft, the owner (a former tournament skier, who asked me to pull him because his usual driver wasn't around that day) told me in not unclear words to reverse at the end of the slalom course ALWAYS and ONLY circling to stbd, because the boat had a l/h prop.
According to him, doing the opposite could have been much more risky

For sure I was turning to starboard, and the boat hooked then rolled 180 degrees to port. (For 5 seconds it was frightening, but within that time I realised my friend and I were both alive so it was then ok!). The engine was ford Essex v6, ccw rotation as you look at the flywheel. There was no gearbox. So it had to be a LH propeller, easily confirmed by Google imaging "Ray Wright delta boat". That means that, according to your mr Correct Craft, I was correct (haha!) in turning to stbd. Thing is, the prop rotation effect in my Delta would be a sideshow compared with a sharp turn at say 40mph in a boat with a big centre skeg/keel that basically tripped over itself ( you can see the skeg on some Google pics; a typical ski boat skeg)

FWIW I can see perfect logic in mr Correct Craft's advice to you - I apply same thought in novurania 430 with yam 70 (RH prop, so turning fast is better to port) where with 1 pax and the coarse prop you can feel the prop trying to stay still and the boat trying to rotate

Very randomly I think this could be "my" old boat. Mine was was grp and afaik the only one ever made with bright yellow gel coat for both hull and deck! http://norfolk.boatshed.com/delta_ski_boat-boat-14153.html

 

[MapisM]

Thing is, the prop rotation effect in my Delta would be a sideshow compared with a sharp turn at say 40mph in a boat with a big centre skeg/keel that basically tripped over itself ( you can see the skeg on some Google pics; a typical ski boat skeg)

Yup, agreed. In fact, I mentioned the CCraft because she also has the centre skeg (actually, 3 of them IIRC), which is something that makes fast turning an interesting experience regardless of whether you are turning on the "good" side (i.e. the one where the prop walk helps to turn) or not.

But geez, 40mph?!? You were more reckless than Pennpromo, in my books!
Course speed is 36 as you surely know, and typical circling is rarely above 30 or so....

 

[MapisM]

I know that car race drivers always push the limits, boat drivers will be no different.

Actually, based on what I read, I tend to think that they were very far from pushing the limits of that boat.
I mean, the reason why they were out there, the conditions they picked, their course: everything make me think that an appropriate comparison with a race car would be when you put one of them on a dyno test to check the engine.
But unfortunately, with a boat the only way to do that is in the water....

 

[rafiki_]

Actually, based on what I read, I tend to think that they were very far from pushing the limits of that boat.
I mean, the reason why they were out there, the conditions they picked, their course: everything make me think that an appropriate comparison with a race car would be when you put one of them on a dyno test to check the engine.
But unfortunately, with a boat the only way to do that is in the water....

Not sure the analogy works for me. I'm sure the Illmor's were dyno tested before going back in the boat. I am not allocating blame in any area, just saying I would be very circumspect of doing any serious speed in that location. But then, I am not a boat racer. Have had plenty of involvement in professional Motorsport but not race boats.

 

[MapisM]

Not sure the analogy works for me. I'm sure the Illmor's were dyno tested before going back in the boat.

Agreed, the analogy is not 100% correct, but what I had in mind is when you put the whole car on a dyno test, to check the results of the engine/transmission at the wheels.
Doing the equivalent with boats means put the thing in the water and hammer the throttles!

 

[rafiki_]

Agreed, the analogy is not 100% correct, but what I had in mind is when you put the whole car on a dyno test, to check the results of the engine/transmission at the wheels.
Doing the equivalent with boats means put the thing in the water and hammer the throttles!

I know that racing trucks are dyno tested on a rolling road to check power and torque, but I've not seen race cars. Clearly they can be used to optimise fuel and timing settings, but not proper race cars.

 

[MapisM]

Ok, forget the analogy if you wish. All I meant to say is that running WOT at 100mph in those conditions with a boat like that is nowhere near "pushing her limits".
Running at 70/80mph with some waves, constantly working on the throttle upon each take off and landing, THAT is much more like it, regardless of speed alone.

 

[rafiki_]

Ok, forget the analogy if you wish. All I meant to say is that running WOT at 100mph in those conditions with a boat like that is nowhere near "pushing her limits".
Running at 70/80mph with some waves, constantly working on the throttle upon each take off and landing, THAT is much more like it, regardless of speed alone.

Yes I agree, but I would not run at those speeds at the mouth of the Hamble. I know the driver is hugely experienced and knows exactly what he is doing, so my comments are personal. I am not at all criticising.

 

[MapisM]

Yes I agree, but I would not run at those speeds at the mouth of the Hamble

Fairenuff. The part related to the local peculiarities of the place is the one I can't judge - and in fact, I didn't.
I understood your comment on the limits as related to the boat (or car, whatever) rather than to local conditions, but in hindsight you did mention also the area, in your post #107. :encouragement:

 

[hunton69]

Yes I agree, but I would not run at those speeds at the mouth of the Hamble. I know the driver is hugely experienced and knows exactly what he is doing, so my comments are personal. I am not at all criticising.

Agreed

With all that experience why would anyone run at those speeds across the mouth of a river. There is a fine line between experience and arrogance.

Incidents like these support the case for speed restrictions etc. which may effect everyone.