Power vs Sail, is it just about the money?

[gjgm]

I am sort of concluding that the them vs us issue seems somewhat location based, ie Solent. As mobo, I dont think I have ever had anything apart from a wave at sea or a wave or thanks from a sailing boat as soon as you clear the Solent- there just seems no issue..just people enjoying their hobby.
For the last three years we have been broadly Normandy/Brittany/Falmouth. Perhaps bcz sailing boats are slower (and so still at sea) I see maybe 50 times more sailing boats at sea than I do mobos. I suspect though, that fuel is really limiting mobo cruising. I dont think in 2011 I saw a SINGLE mobo at sea over three week cruise;2012 maybe 2;2013 I have seen more, but maybe half a dozen. (here, I dont mean travelling 5 miles from the marina, but going somewhere).
Where you might be right, is that usual British resentment of someone elses "wealth", and mobos are often more evidently bling. There are of course expensive sailing boats too, but 1. you dont see many of them;2.maybe there are not so obviously expensive to a non sailor.

 

[SamanthaTabs]

It's the joy, the sport, the having something active to do that make sailing so much fun. I practise that mantra when we're making 3 knots and mobos are flying past us

 

[WestWittering]

Where you might be right, is that usual British resentment of someone elses "wealth", and mobos are often more evidently bling. There are of course expensive sailing boats too, but 1. you dont see many of them;2.maybe there are not so obviously expensive to a non sailor.

I don't think so - I could buy a Mobo tommorow if I wanted to - I could also buy a Ferrari, a hang-glider, a racing lawnmower, a jet powered hang-glider but I am more into tranquility, skill & learning.... I bought an old cheap boat to see if I would enjoy sailing and I do - I am particularly adverse to wasting money so bought something I would get every penny back on if I wanted out. So far I am enjoying her so much that whenever I look at expensive/better/faster boats, the guilt of selling Flora holds me back. I have yet to find one Raggie who said you must get a bigger/better/shinier/newer boat. The only Mobo owner who has been on my boat kept on about how much I should have a fridge & where I would be best to put it. I did think of somewhere, but I think he may have found it too difficult to walk for a while..

I am sorry to say that the "you are envious because I have more cash than you" does seem more typical of the Mobo owners than the Raggies. If I see an amazingly beautiful boat I admire it for what it is. I have yet to see an amazingly beautiful Mobo - although there are a couple of lovely classics at ChiMar.

Keep telling yourself we are jealous if it makes you happy

Di

 

[Elessar]

What I've noticed on our travels is that sailing boats often venture a long way from home, whereas mobos tend not to travel very far. Maybe cost is the reason.

range is the biggest problem on most, few mobos can cross oceans. Whilst few sailing boats go very far, the vast majority of boats that go far are sailboats.

My longest mobo cruise with only one stop is 2000 M. (the first part of a 3000M trip)

 

[Elessar]

The thing that makes me laugh about some of the comments in this thread is comments like "I think mobos are blah blah blah insert derogatory term here"

Fine you're right! Not that interesting, but you're right.

But my opinion is no less worthy than yours, and my enjoyment of my boat no less real than yours. We like different things. What on earth is wrong with that?

 

[TiggerToo]

above all (like me) skin flints

+1

 

[Tomahawk]

I don,t care if you sail or chug or even whizz about on a jet ski...... as long as you are happy and come off the water safe.. and are fairly respectful of others..

Out little sail boat is far more expensive than some fine looking mobos... and more expensive to park in a marina.. (multihull) so what?? It is not the most expensive boat... nor the cheapest... I think she is very pretty, but many others would not like her... again so what? every boat is beautiful to her owner... (a bit like a pussy cat I suppose). ..

 

[Neil]

I got into sailing via mobs - for fishing, so I didn't go any great distance. Still, 25 litres or more of petrol per session made any fish caught expensive! I get regular emails from Boattest, and the latest 20 odd foot offering used 334 litres per hr at WOT.........I once went out fishing for the day, and a large mobo that had come across the atlantic, was being refuelled that morning. The marina pumps didn't have the capacity, so a road tanker was called in. It was still being refuelled when I came back in the evening......

Fuel costs money, and will become increasingly more expensive as time goes on. I'm curious to understand how propulsion costs can be similar - sails and rigging can last for a decade or more......

 

[sailgoodthefaultless]

sailing is in the blood you buy a sailboat to go sailing you buy a mobo to go travelling. I chartered a 40 ft mototrboat and spent the whole day looking enviously at the yachts. that sunday times magazine thing with the totty on the front, at 30 knots its basically like being tied to a roofrack.

The sailors leave first and arrive last .In the moboI realised we set off for lunch got the best anchorage and the best table whilst they were still beating up the coast. We then made the best spot for dinner got changed in air conditioned comfort whhilst they arrived as the kitchen shut sweating like a scouser on his way to job club.

Thiis summer i spent more fixing the dinghies due to high wind sailing whilst the small mobo tested my heart and the groud tacklle and chain.
money isnot theissue
to prove it i have made up the following figures

last summer cost
searay 180 fuel £180

laser main sheet and pulley 60
rudder and tiller £80
footstraop £21
Mirror mast £80
topper new sail £40
topaz new mast £100


smile on my face
priceless

 

[lustyd]

Fuel costs money, and will become increasingly more expensive as time goes on. I'm curious to understand how propulsion costs can be similar - sails and rigging can last for a decade or more......

They can indeed. And on a well travelled sail boat they will pay for themselves many times over. there are very few well travelled sailboats though. Mine, at 20' does a few hundred miles a year. Let's say that I do 3000 miles in 10 years. A suit of sails will cost about £1300 and lasts those same 10 years. Full rigging will be around £500 so I will pay around £1800 to travel 3000 miles or 60p a mile. My mums boat, a 22' mobo with 130HP engine won't use anything like that much in fuel when on the plane, and not much more when not on the plane.

As I said, if I did more miles things would be different but I don't. Bigger boats which do more miles pay more for sails and rigging. Sail price goes up faster than length too since sail is sized by area.

 

[ricky_s]

Lets break it down.

Fuel
I think the fuel is quite a small part of the equation all things being equal. If you keep a reasonable sized boat in a marina if will cost you loads for mooring, lift out and servicing, whatever type of boat you have, there are fuel costs but most of the time the engine if off.

Skill
Now I know if is often quoted that there is no skill involved in motorboating but I am sure most on here don't really believe it's like driving a car, I don't think sailing is particularly difficult either. Navigational skills are needed by all.

Use
I don't like to generalise but this is where we tend to differ. Motor boats like to get to a destination fast and enjoy it whereas for sail boats its mainly about the journey. That said, we all spend an equal amount of time on our boats its just that some get to bars more quickly.

When sailing on my friends sailboat I can't believe how long it takes him to get anywhere, when we agree to meet up I have to remember he needs a day to get to our lunch stop so have to make allowances for that.

Enjoyment
This is the bit we all agree on, there is nowhere I would prefer to be now than on my boat.

As an observation, since moving from a sports boat to a fisher type boat I get waved to all the time now but didn't before, I'm not sure why that is?

Enjoy the summer

 

[Garold]

Cost is probably one of many considerations for most people at some point. Affordability depends on personal circumstance.

However, I think some people choose motor boating because of wanting to get further in limited time. So, if you want to shoot off to more distant and varied destinations and only have a weekend, 5-7 knots can be very limiting. And there's the chance to exploit short weather windows which, with modern forecasting can be identified more easily.

Personally, I wouldn't want to give up the opportunity to sail sometimes. However, I can certainly see some of the advantages of motor boating.

I think cost comparisons are tricky. If you don't get out too much, and choose carefully, mobo ownership can be a similar price to yachting ( and theres also lots of sailboats in our marina that rarely travel anywhere). Do lots of weekend touring and maybe take on the depreciation of a new mobo, and the comparison would be entirely different.

I Can't understand the animosity when it's just different choices of boats to suit different people's needs/desires.

I continually find Dylan's adventures engaging and watching his videos regularly reminds me about the enjoyable elements of sailing that I forget, but I can't empathise with his critical comments on other people's choice of craft.

Running cost counts as a consideration for most of us, but it still wouldn't drive most people I know to do something that they didn't like. I can't imagine anyone putting up with a yacht heeling (and peeing/ cooking/ sleeping at 45 degrees) unless they enjoyed it, however much diesel it saved.

Cheers

Garold.

 

[jwilson]

Fuel costs money, and will become increasingly more expensive as time goes on. I'm curious to understand how propulsion costs can be similar - sails and rigging can last for a decade or more......

On a superyacht that must have absolutely immaculate sails to go with pristine decks, gleaming piano-top varnish and designer interiors they do not want to get them wet, dirty, stretched and worn. Ask Hood the price of a mainsail with 200 ft luff length - and this is for a pretty small superyacht by todays standards. Engines are cheaper to replace, and fuel is a known quantity. Many yachts carry old sails for delivery passages, othesr just run on engine.

 

[Supine Being]

As an observation, since moving to a sports boat to a fisher type boat I get waved to all the time now but didn't before, I'm not sure why that is?

Thinking about it now, I generally wave when I make eye contact. There are boats where the helm is so tucked away, or fly-bridges that are so high, that it's hard to make a connection, so no wave. I don't know if your sports boat was like that, but it could be why. I wonder now whether some skippers think I'm giving them the evil eye when I look up and don't wave, but it's only because I can't see 'em.

 

[ricky_s]

Thinking about it now, I generally wave when I make eye contact. There are boats where the helm is so tucked away, or fly-bridges that are so high, that it's hard to make a connection, so no wave. I don't know if your sports boat was like that, but it could be why. I wonder now whether some skippers think I'm giving them the evil eye when I look up and don't wave, but it's only because I can't see 'em.

My sports boat was quite low and was only a 25 footer whereas my current one is a bit big and has a flybridge, so can be a bit higher though I do tend to helm from inside most of the time anyway but your point is interesting!

 

[oldgit]

Some of us till enjoy the company of our wives and friends and postively enjoy sharing the boat with a day out in company.
After a trip out,suspect a far higher number of non boaty friends/spouses/hangers on will be inviting themselves back onto a motorboat as opposed to a yot.
Now we know there will be people jumping up and down claiming their beloveds love pooing into a bucket while leaning at 45% and really enjoy taking three hours to get to a bouy but they are not the norm.
Most mobo owners have probably much the same finances as raggies but merely choose to spend their money on fuel instead of in other directions.

 

[asteven221]

I spend half my time on a mobo, looking at the perfect breeze, and wishing I was on a yacht. I spend half my time on a yacht, squinting through the rain, bashing to windward, wishing I was in a mobo wheelhouse, with auto, telly, kettle, just to hand.

But the best bit of any day on the water, is when the engine goes off, and one is left with silence. On a mobo, this means the days work is done, but on a yacht, it means the adventure is just beginning.

I think the whole 'bitter dispute' does not exist, all of us have the ability to be unknowingly selfish, or ignorant, and all of us has the potential to be friendly and helpful. We are just more aware of the foibles of mobo drivers, as they tend to accompany the entertainment with a symphony of noisy engines. In the same way as often selfish cyclist or equestrian behaviour is let slide, or forgiven, as the activity is clean and healthy, where as a motorcycle gang cruising the streets attract notice, and comment, no matter how innocent and courteous the riders.

I think the cost aspect of fuel is not a factor in the decision to own a mobo over a ragger, as most of us stick our heads in the sand when considering the real cost per hour to play. It will have a bigger affect on patterns of use, IMHO, than on ownership.

For me, I prefer to travel hopefully on yachts, but to enjoy the comfort at my destination on a mobo.

Agree with everything you say. As someone who loves both and has jumped between owning sail and mobo many times over the years, you echo my thoughts exactly! Neither are perfect - only perfect some of the time and usually only perfect when the other is imperfect.

 

[asteven221]

After posting I noticed some of the other posts. One thing I would say is that from my experience of motor boating cost vs yacht costs, is that mobos are considerably more expensive to own and not just in fuel cost. I don't know how people can suggest that there isn't much difference in the costs. There is - a huge difference. Whether it's new or second hand, the motor boat is likely to cost about three times the purchase price of a yacht of the same LOA. Sure there are some exceptions but I am comparing big brand names for each type. I am also assuming we are talking boats between about 30ft and 50ft or so. The only thing I can think of where they cost the same is in berthing and hoisting. As a comparison my last boat was a Beneteau 423, which was like petty cash to own compared to my current (6 year older) 44ft Sealine Flybridge.

Given that a motorboat will inevitably cost a lot more, then it follows that for any given budget to buy a boat, then the motorboat will either be a lot older and need numerous constant and costly repairs, upgrades etc... or it will be a lot smaller than the similar priced yacht. Motorboats typically have a lot more systems installed. These systems are a constant source of repairs/upgrades.

I actually have think there is a bit of jealously with some yachties towards motor boaters, but they will never admit to it . At the same time I have also seen some yachties that appear jealous of the guy that just bought a brand £100k AWB. That surfaces in this forum from time to time from what I can tell. I think it's just human nature and some people are jealous types whilst other couldn't care less. It applies to many things i.e. house, cars, holidays etc.... Unfortunately the British seem more likely to be the jealous types, than people from other countries who admire people who are doing ok. Hand on heart (as a current motor boater) - It's extremely rare to come across anyone with a mobo who appears jealous of any yacht. Honestly! Many of my friends and people I know who have got mobos, but have had yachts will typically be positive towards a yacht, especially if it's a nice yacht (often shiny and wooden). They make all sorts of admiring comments. If it's any other type of yacht they will just ignore it as if it's not of any interest whatsoever, however the key thing is that they never slag it off or the owner. Many Yachties on the other hand just can't help themselves and simply have to make a negative comments towards mobos. Also, on the whole mobo owners are a lot more sociable and friendly bunch than yachties, although I think that might be because of the nature of many mobo owners seeing their boat as home from home on the water and is therefore a means to meet people.

 

[maby]

Some of us till enjoy the company of our wives and friends and postively enjoy sharing the boat with a day out in company.
After a trip out,suspect a far higher number of non boaty friends/spouses/hangers on will be inviting themselves back onto a motorboat as opposed to a yot.
Now we know there will be people jumping up and down claiming their beloveds love pooing into a bucket while leaning at 45% and really enjoy taking three hours to get to a bouy but they are not the norm.
Most mobo owners have probably much the same finances as raggies but merely choose to spend their money on fuel instead of in other directions.

Isn't this just a reflection of the fact that all the yachts you are familiar with are small, old and tatty? Also, the majority of sailing boat owners that contribute to these forums seem to regard 35 foot as large. You certainly don't poo in a bucket on our boat and it's designed to sail at 15 degrees, not 45. It is true that we can't out run you, but it's a bit unfair to compare a modern forty foot mobo with a twenty five year old 23 foot sailboat for comfort!

 

[VO5]

I don't think money comes into it at all.
I think it is a blend of choice and conviction.
Each has distinctive qualities and features.
But there are things about mobos that put me off, mainly the noise and the vibration.
The skill sets of a raggie are also a palette missing from mobo ownership.
Probably, but not altogether, it is the challenge of using the skill sets sail demands that more appeals to me, and there again, the satisfaction of overcoming weather to achieve an objective. But this is not all. Under sail, there is this communion with nature I think moboing kills. Under sail there is time to enjoy and be at one with the natural elements, whether pleasant or unpleasant so different to life ashore. Then there is no need to sail her on her ear except when conditions demand, so there is this wrong assumption that sailing involves constant lopsided discomfort. It is an error of perception. Under sail there is always something to attend to, and this maintains interest. Additionally, I think, and it may just be my specific preference, it is more enjoyable and relaxing to make way quietly, with just the sound of water rushing by and the occasional flapping of sails and the fluttering of the ensign. It is quiet enough to be able to talk and perhaps listen to music, without the drumming of engines to spoil it. I may be biased. I probably am.