power consumption

G

graham42

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 Aug 2003
Messages
237
Location
millbrook, cornwall
Visit site
guess weve all sat around the bar discussing the pros & cons of tungstun filiment bulbs verses LEDs.

then the conversation goes to power production and running engines/solar power from sun & wind.

im converting to LED lamps which i bought from australia with the correct staggered pins for aquasignal and hella lamp holders for my navigation lights.

just tested my navigation lamps for power useage.
the mast is 20m above water so theres a good run of cable and voltage drop.
25watt lamps:
tricolour 2.7amps at 13v
steaming 3.0amps @ 13v
port & starboard 2.5amps @13v
deck light 3.0amps @13v

10watt lamp
anchor 1.7amps @13v

LED lamp(suggested consumption 0.2amps)
stern lamp 0.4amps 13v

i think thats conclusive. the LED lamps will burn brighter for longer as they use less ampage, run cold and have an operation voltage range of 10-15v the same as normal bulbs.

with a photocell embeded the anchor light could be left on while cruising. see www.cruisenews.net/newdiscoveries

the cost was around £100 for 6 LEDs
 
Taking an example RGB style 3 chip LED. They have a typical output of 2000mcd over 80 degrees. So you need ~5 segments to go around 360.

Therefore the output of one of these LED array bulbs that have 3 per segment is 6cd for 360 degrees.

So compare that to a 25W normal nav bulb: Minimum requirement 30cd

So if you think you have found the ultimate answer then think again. They are not worth the cost and your life.

I will go as far as saying I will refuse to work on any boat that uses these as they are a hazard to navigation. I know of no certification for them.

Final word from their site: Note the "IF". Note also the word "bulb". There are "lights" that meet the standards but they take 21W for the equivalent of 25W bulb.

[ QUOTE ]

"Do the flux anchor meet current marine standards?"
If there is any LED bulb currently meeting those standards this bulb will exceed them.
Currently we're seeking approval for our bulbs from the US Coast Guard.
They can easily be seen at the standard 3 and 5 mile range.


[/ QUOTE ]

From their site:

[ QUOTE ]

Must be used behind a waterproof fitting if used in marine applications.


[/ QUOTE ]

Most fitting are not waterproof. These bulbs have no visible passivation.

By the way your insurance would be invalid. You have been conned in my humble opinion.
 
If you have the steaming, port, starboard etc lights on, then the engine is running, so whats the consumption problem? ok, a tricolour, for sailing, but I see no real use for them as a nav lght bulb, maybe for internal lights, but at 100 squids, no thankyou, get halogen ones, less current than tungsten bulb and last a lot longer, available as a "bulb" with the same B15D or S as usual bulbs, also offset.
 
solarneil,

from your critisism i take it youve actually tested these LEDs.

from viewing my stern light compared to tungstun, the LED is brighter. the human eye cant distinquish between sectors of light it only sees the total.
in isolation with nothing visible from other sectors id agree with you but, its not the case.
the light source isnt regulated by navigation regulations. its the tricolour lamp unit thats regulated. insurrance companys prefer you to comply with night time regulations if your sailing or anchoring, but many people dont. do you advocate that we employ insurrance police roaming around making sure we all comply.
the attitude of " i wont work or sail on any boat so equiped"
is this the right question to ask. id have thought, does the skipper know how to sail rather than, does this vessel comply to every known regulation. a MOT for boats-french style.
as for the cost of my life-id rather have my tricolour lit than exstinquished through duff batterys.

perhaps you might think of being a moderator on www.cruiserlog.com
 
please correct me if wrong, but are'nt they using led's in trafic lights ? does this meen that if I go thro a red light I can claim I did'nt see it? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

also I thought I saw a car with LED rear lights recently, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Actually I rather wish somebody would enforce COLREGS regarding lights, with serious penalties. If the idiots who don't comply want to kill themselves or have an insurance claim refused that's fine but they put others at risk.

One of the current issues in the Caribbean is the plonkers using strobes as anchor lights. We sail a lot at night (it's cooler), around 40% of boats have the wrong lights, it's selfish and unforgiveable.
 
1. I do not need to test them, the specs for the parts are publicly available on the web. Read them and you will see that the mcd values I used are typical and not the lower minimum. However I used the lower limit for the bulb.

2. The conformance certification for the proper LED lights are available also. QinetiQ testing.

3. The certification for tricolours units etc. IS with the appropriate bulb only. The bulb is made to a standard.

As for your freedom, please go and do anything you like. My point is that if a ship has a problem with you and you are lucky to survive, then do not expect the insurance to ignore your choice. The MAIB report shows they are on the case of compromised lights.

I am free to choose as well. If a boat is using non-standard lights then I assume their duty of care for others is compromised. So why would I trust their integrity. Working on another's boat requires a 2 way trust relationship.

The LED could be brighter if you are on the axis and next to it. The lens was never designed for the bulb. The alignment of the lens rings and the LED axis heights is undetermined. When they quote 80degree angle on the LEDs, that means at 80 degrees the power output is half. So at different horizontal angles the light is much lower.

If it was so easy to get certification why are the certified ones so costly and power hungry.

A lot of trucks and traffic lights are using LEDs. They are also used on navigation lights. It is not the technology it is the application of that technology. The con is the way they sell these products as shown clearly in the quotes.
 
Why has no one questioned the maths?? It would seem that these figures are very wrong. Assuming that the quoted amps are after LED's are fitted... Even before, they are incorrect! The basics are w x a = v; and all the other variables!
 
I would love for them to raise the requirements of the lights on any powered (main or aux) boats outside the 5nm coastal area.

In return I would also want the specifications of Radar standards to be improved in light of staff reductions on bridges and increased speeds.
 
"sectors of light"

That a good point I had not thought they defeated the tricolour sectors.

A standard bulb has a filament in the centre. Specified to 1mm tolerance. So the angle of the R G & W sectors are perfect.

LED bulbs like these have an offset from the centre and the bulb segments are not registered with the outer lens segments in different light models. In other words the apparent source of light is not in the axial centre of the light but is in a ring.

So the light going through the white lens sector will be a wider angle than the regulations state. You will see white and green together as it fades between.

Therefore NO LED bulb replacement can ever be certified. (LED Bulb as opposed to a real LED Light unit)
 
[ QUOTE ]
So the light going through the white lens sector will be a wider angle than the regulations state. You will see white and green together as it fades between.

[/ QUOTE ]

But is this actually going to be noticed by the human eye ... from a distance where you are looking for collision avoidance ?

Not trying to argue - curious .. if the overlap is less than 10 degrees then I doubt anyone would actually notice, especially with the movement of the vessel with the LEDs.... so - do you know what the overlap would be?

The level of brightness though is one that I agree does need very serious consideration - make yourself seen first ....
 
No I don't know, its after midnight. For small lights it is more than 10 degrees. It is dependant on the diameter of the lens and the offset in the apparent LED position from the centre axis, and how the 5 LED bulbs segments are arranged wrt. the 3 colours.
 
Quote
------------------------------------

Why has no one questioned the maths?? It would seem that these figures are very wrong. Assuming that the quoted amps are after LED's are fitted... Even before, they are incorrect! The basics are w x a = v; and all the other variables!

-----------------------------------------

w x a = v

Is that where I've been goin wrong
 
ziggy,

i know the formula watts/volts = amps plus cable loss. i mentioned mast height.
i was very surprised with ampage use when lighting my masthead tri.
25watt bulb at masthead height of 17.5m running off a fully charged battery @13v consuming 3amps =39 watts. perhaps i should use an inverter to 240v to reduce my voltage drop.
thicker cable might be cheaper but what about weight aloft.
in an ideal world...
 
solarneil,

i take your point, its something i havent realised.
the mast head tri is only truely visible when you view it on a horizontal plane.

colregs. i sail like i drive a car. im prepared to take avoiding action at all times. i assume all other sea going vessel have crew safely tucked up in bed or watching cricket on tv and if theres a watch keeper he`s an eejit.
i try not to sail when its dark.
the only attribute i look for in a fellow sailor is commonsense.
 
In practice I've always had a surplus of power, I'm either sailing with a towed generator or motoring. Running conventional filament lights throughout and an electric air cooled fridge, laptop plotter plus the electronics, Autohelm 6000 for days at a time.

Why is there a need to save power?
 
[ QUOTE ]
the mast head tri is only truely visible when you view it on a horizontal plane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm ... not much good then!
 
What the minimum specs say and what the lights actually do is very different.

The angle does not just cut off the light, it is a gradual decrease.

What is considered safe and adequate for navigation has occurred through mutual learning. The rules are the absolute minimum.

Who really only wants to be seen at 1nm?
 
I have an LED tricolour bulb (DrLED) which has full european certification as 2 mile light when used as replacement for aquasignals tungstan bulb. It is fully registered in an identical sealed glass envelope with gold plated bayonet and has same light sector as standard bulb. To the eye it apears brighter over a wider angle than the standard bulb, draws about 2.5w and has a much longer life. Reliability was as much a factor as power consumption. I would agree that you should be very cautios about fitting non-certified lights
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top