Post deleted by danfoley

[Mirelle]

Boat Rage

I have a friend whom is elderly and has a heart condition. He called into a marina to refuel and fill up with water on passage from Cornwall to Suffolk. Whilst filling the water tanks the following conversation took place.

NBO (threateningly) "How much longer will you be with that hose, then?"

EY "I have a hundred gallon tank to fill"

NBO "How long will that take?"

EY "About half an hour"

NBO breaks into a string of profanities of the "We'll XXXX see about that" tendency, goes off to collect his two large mates and demands that the hose be handed over to them, because they have XXXX well paid for it and who the XXXX did my elderly friend think he was!"

There was another hose easily accessible, if they really could not wait half an hour.

 

[Guest]

Re: Call me elitist but ...

I started my sailing life as a 'clueless charterer on the Norfolk Broads', actually.

I take most of your points completely, but everyone has to start somewhere. Otherwise the price of elitism will be a sport/hobby that dies on its feet.

"El manana es nuestro, companero..."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by The_Fruitbat on Mon Mar 25 13:46:33 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[AndrewB]

Hullabaloos.

True, everyone starts clueless. I had in mind the crew of the Margoletta in "Coot Club", the first recorded example of Boat Rage; not the responsible and highly courteous members of this forum!

 

[Guest]

Re: Hullabaloos.

Ah, you're reprieved, a favourite book, and evidently a man of great good taste. Sadly the Hullabaloos are alive and well.

When I get my mooring sorted out, (am at survey/argument stage now) you will be able to see the location of Dr Dudgeon's house from it!

When we announced to my dad that we were buying a boat (he regards it as an expensive way to risk your life) we gave him Coot Club to read to try and explain why we wanted it.

Best wishes

The Fruitbat

"El manana es nuestro, companero..."

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Hullabaloos.

Come to think of it, Andrew B is dead right; the Hullaballoos are the very first recorded example of boat rage.

I saw a specimen of a Hullaballoo yesterday (Sunday), a planing power boat (no, I don't have anything against them in principle!) pottered along at the speed limit until past the boatyards then, when he thought no-one could see him, blasted through New Cut, swamping both banks (this was at High Water). Alas too far to read the name and report the swine.

 

[Guest]

Re: Twaddle

First a little nit-picking correction.

Manila is hemp, it is just that it came from the philipines and was a different quality.

Cannabis was much used, though I do not remember any seamen smoking old rope. The word canvas is a corruption of cannabis.

There are some very interesting ponts on this thread, but it seems to me that what we are complaining about is that too many people sail at the same time. I have noted that in various parts where there are few boats, everyone is far better mannered.

Perhaps the RYA should change policy and discourage people from learning to sail.

ELitism????

William Cooper

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Twaddle

I stand corrected. And I should apolgise to Bill for being too intemperate.

Some little time ago, some of us suggested that, should one really wish to do something to benefit oneself and one's fellow yachtsmen, enlightened self interest will suggest that one discourages people from taking up sailing.

There is, after all, something to be said for golf, free fall parachuting, speleolgy, coarse fishing and stamp collecting, all of which have elements in common with sailing.

However, in what became the longest thread seen on this bulletin board, we were howled down and accused of elitism.

 

[Guest]

Sextants for British coastal sailing?

"... they carried sextants, and used them, on passages around the coast and across the Channel and the North Sea... "

I suppose the weather in the good old days was much better too? How many times can you use a sextant on a coastal navigation around the UK? I have a sextant but it rarely sees the sun and I'm out on the boat constantly. The older charts weren't exactly wonderful by comparison either.



Humperdinck

Email: HJ@Seacracker.org
Website: www.seacracker.org

 

[Guest]

The day that sailing went Caravan

You will probably know alot more than myself but Francis B. Cooke is probably a good example of Saturday afternoon and Sunday sailing with style and lovely humour to boot.

I would not suggest that anyone should follow a particular format of sailing but I think many are bored by it, often not knowing the reason why.

In the late sixties yachts seemed to travel well from wood to GRP ( in design terms). The first requirement was that they still had to sail well. This changed to satisfy 'livability' rather than sailing. Probably a combination of wives coming sailing more often, and a general higher expectation that if you're friends and family are to come along, the boat should, shall we say, offer more by way of entertaining than sailing ( image is of course more of a 'thing' these days)

The trouble is that these boats cannot give you a decent sail. If its below force three not much happens. On the wind above 3 they gripe and will put your shoulder out on the helm after an hour. Even on a reach weather helm is again a big problem . In a chop you will be thrown around and forced to motorsail on most points of sailing. You are left with such a narrow band of 'conditions' to enjoy the boat and sailing that the only time you go sailing is on club outings where company can make the weekend more interesting. Or you have a sail for a couple of hours almost to make yourself believe that you bought it to enjoy the water. New add on gizmo's probably help to make things better but probably more interesting than anything else.

Modern boats are starting to combine livability and performance much better now but who can afford to buy a new boat these days ? Like new equipment ruining the men's game at Wimbledon this is also a new phenomenon for yachting which is turning sailing into boat ownership rather than an 'adventure in living at the weekend' .Following the trend throughout of being comfortable in one's own home but lacking in getting out and about.

My attitude is probably elitist and selfish but I really do believe that there's more fun to be had out there than you see at the moment.

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: Sextants for British coastal sailing?

When I've used mine around the coast, it was horizontal - but that was quite a bit ago.

 

[Guest]

Re: Sextants for British coastal sailing?

Didn't you ever use your sextant for coastal navigation, Humperdinck? Vertical angles - very useful indeed. Horizontal angles - a bit fiddly, but still useful. They were not just for sun sights - we often used to get a star sight, or a planet in the evening or early morning. Pole Star - very useful. Moon - more tricky. We always carried a sextant and got plentiful opportunities to use it.

 

[billmacfarlane]

Re: Twaddle

Apology accepted , though I probably deserved your comments. Can't comment much on cannabis , not on a public website anyway - suspect my daughters know more about the subject than I do. I take your last point re self interest. We all like to sail in quiet waters if we can , but I try not to get in Victor Meldrew mood in crowded waters. After all they're only doing whay I want to do i.e sail.

 

[Guest]

Re: Sextants for British coastal sailing?

To be fair, I have used it occasionally for horizontal angles, but for celestial navigation I wouldn't like to have to rely on the British weather. It still gives me an enormous degree of satisfaction whenever it's put into service, however - a feeling which is totally missing from reading my gps.

Humperdinck

Email: HJ@Seacracker.org
Website: www.seacracker.org

 

[Guest]

Density vs. Manners?

Of course your observation is entirely correct - sail in the Bristol Channel, Scotalns (north of Adnurmuchan/ Tobermoray) etc., and there is none of the BS which seems to come from more crowded waters.

I get to find out for myself what the South coast is like in June when I pop round the corner and go along Devon and Cornwall ... I will let you know how I think it compares.

As to discouraging people from boating, well the marina fees will surely take their toll eventually ... there must be a limit to how many marinas the environmentalist lobby will tolerate. A dramatic reduction would follow the removal of the tax break on marine diesel - that would sort things out dammed quick!

Humperdinck

Email: HJ@Seacracker.org
Website: www.seacracker.org

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Sextants for British coastal sailing?

Vertical angles, dear boy, vertical angles. The coastline in your part oif the world is quite lumpy enough!

As to Heavenly Bodies and all that, I remember crewing for a very distinguished yachtsman who would quite calmly combine a bearing of a headland with a Sumner line, if the sun happened to be out.

 

[Guest]

Re: Sextants for British coastal sailing?

I wouldn't even know where to begin with that - my sextant skills are very limited!

On my first boat I didn't have a VHF or even a knot log. Speed was calculated by timing a small ball of paper passing the 39' from bow to stern ... funny thing was I could navigate well enough even on foggy days (common in S. California) because I had to learn to pay close attention to the factors which these days I take for granted. I did have an old whirlygig depth sounder, though, and that was superb when approaching the coastline as the bottom was so deep ... as soon as you had a return, you knew just exactly how far off you were.





Humperdinck

Email: HJ@Seacracker.org
Website: www.seacracker.org

 

[Guest]

[No message]

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: What I think

Twaddle springs to mind. Identifying the coastline of a new destination, even with all the electronics, is still immensely satisfying. Even more so if it is your first passage.
The only time things could get boring is if you retrace the same an old route weekend after weekend.
Not all boat owners have all their electronics hooked up to each other.

 

[AndrewB]

Re: Sextants for British coastal sailing?

Mirelle is quite right. On a steel boat like mine a hand-bearing compass is useless and before the days of GPS we always used the sextant for position fixing, and even running a single position line from a sun sight on cross-channel trips (the method is given in Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail", and he expected accuracy to within a mile or so).

There are a good few wrinkles to position fixing with a sextant but I guess that type of knowledge is pretty well irrelevant now.

 

[Guest]

Re: The good old days

I can understand your sentiments regarding the "Good Old Days", and it's the exploits of Chichester, Knox-Johnston, Tabarly etc., that inspired my interest in sailing. However, times change, but the individual is not forced to change. If you want the experience sailing in the sixties that's easy to do. Just ditch your electronics, change the rigging, and toss the furling headsail for a 1, 2, & 3 headsail.

Personally, I'm not that enamoured with all the current electronic wizardry. I like to keep things simple and reliable. I sailed a long time without GPS, but on my next boat I will certainly have one, not to make my navigation easier but as a back up aid. You see I really enjoy navigating, the more complex the better, but there are times when a verification on position would be reassuring. I consider a GPS as an aid in improving my classical navigation. The other electronic gizmo I had was a VHF, but I hardly used it for transmitting. It was there for emergencies only.

However, I had a dry comfortable boat with all the safety equipment, good foul weather gear, and the boat rigged for single handed sailing. Even if it was wet and windy I would still be out there because I just love sailing, and everything to do with the art of sailing, but I'm not a slave to gadgets and marketing.