Post Brexit - T2L

Hurricane

Hurricane

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What are people's thoughts on the T2L Certificate?
It doesn't cost anything to get one.
It is certified by HMRC and, I believe that after Brexit, HMRC won't be able to do this certification.
The RYA have an excellent guide to obtaining a T2L.

Are people on here getting their T2Ls?

Maybe I've missed conversations and it has been discussed before.
 
Hurricane said:
What are people's thoughts on the T2L Certificate?
It doesn't cost anything to get one.
It is certified by HMRC and, I believe that after Brexit, HMRC won't be able to do this certification.
The RYA have an excellent guide to obtaining a T2L.

Are people on here getting their T2Ls?

Maybe I've missed conversations and it has been discussed before.
Click to expand...

Great question but what is it
 
Sorry, I didn't know how much people knew about the T2L Certification.

Thanks FARSCO - that link explains it for everyone who doesn't know what it is.

So, the question stands - what are people doing?
Especially those in the Med but I heard today, a rumour that suggests that while T2L is of benefit to those of us with boats in EU it will not allow retention of Union Goods status for boats in UK.
 
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Hurricane said:
What are people's thoughts on the T2L Certificate?
It doesn't cost anything to get one.
It is certified by HMRC and, I believe that after Brexit, HMRC won't be able to do this certification.
The RYA have an excellent guide to obtaining a T2L.
Are people on here getting their T2Ls?

Maybe I've missed conversations and it has been discussed before.
Click to expand...

RYA guide pack is excellent , followed their recommendations posted last week to HMRC , got my T2L in post to -day
And dated prior Brexit can only help down the road with spain / Portugal
 
Hurricane said:
Yep - I know it is a quick process but does it prove anything?
Click to expand...

I dont see that it proves anything more than an original VAT invoice and I dont see that it changes your situation post Brexit anyway. Boats which have had UK VAT paid pre Brexit will either be accepted in the EU as VAT paid post Brexit or they wont and having a T2L document instead of VAT invoice wont change that (apart from countries that demand a T2L now). IMHO existing VAT paid boats will be accepted as VAT paid after Brexit because not to do so would create huge problems not only for boats but many other forms of transport too

Personally I think if you want to protect yourself and fly under the radar a bit in the EU post Brexit, it might be worth considering re-registering under an EU flag (eg Dutch which seems quite cheap and easy)
 
Deleted User said:
I dont see that it proves anything more than an original VAT invoice and I dont see that it changes your situation post Brexit anyway. Boats which have had UK VAT paid pre Brexit will either be accepted in the EU as VAT paid post Brexit or they wont and having a T2L document instead of VAT invoice wont change that (apart from countries that demand a T2L now). IMHO existing VAT paid boats will be accepted as VAT paid after Brexit because not to do so would create huge problems not only for boats but many other forms of transport too
Click to expand...

Thats not what the RYA and the Cruising Association are saying.
The latest thoughts are that the T2L is only effective at retaining EU Union Goods status for boats actually in EU on Brexit day, and that boats in UK will immediately lose Union Goods status and hence become subject to the 18 month temporary import rules..... as long as they are sailed by Non EU RESIDENT. The CA are in the process of trying to confirm this with an EU commission source.

So, to me, it isn't all about VAT.
It seems to me that a boat that is in the UK now without a T2L and wants to cruise inside the EU after Brexit might have to be imported into the EU post Brexit.
But I'm no expert - just reading the rumours and passing them on.

It would be good to hear what the tax experts who post on here think.
 
Hurricane said:
Thats not what the RYA and the Cruising Association are saying.
The latest thoughts are that the T2L is only effective at retaining EU Union Goods status for boats actually in EU on Brexit day, and that boats in UK will immediately lose Union Goods status and hence become subject to the 18 month temporary import rules..... as long as they are sailed by Non EU RESIDENT. The CA are in the process of trying to confirm this with an EU commission source.

So, to me, it isn't all about VAT.
It seems to me that a boat that is in the UK now without a T2L and wants to cruise inside the EU after Brexit might have to be imported into the EU post Brexit.
But I'm no expert - just reading the rumours and passing them on.

It would be good to hear what the tax experts who post on here think.
Click to expand...

Yes it would be good to hear from somebody who is more expert on this issue but what youre saying in effect is that any goods which have had UK(EU) VAT paid on them prior to Brexit and are not in the EU on Brexit day will be considered non EU VAT paid? Is that right? I dont know how anybody can say that with any certainty whatsoever at this stage and I very much doubt that that will be the case anyway otherwise it will not only be boats that this will affect but all other forms of transport too. So when I take my motorbike on the ferry to Calais in June will I be asked to pay VAT on it by the French customs? I dont think so
 
Deleted User said:
Yes it would be good to hear from somebody who is more expert on this issue but what youre saying in effect is that any goods which have had UK(EU) VAT paid on them prior to Brexit and are not in the EU on Brexit day will be considered non EU VAT paid? Is that right? I dont know how anybody can say that with any certainty whatsoever at this stage and I very much doubt that that will be the case anyway otherwise it will not only be boats that this will affect but all other forms of transport too. So when I take my motorbike on the ferry to Calais in June will I be asked to pay VAT on it by the French customs? I dont think so
Click to expand...

Thats what they are saying - but, as I say from what I'm reading, it is more that after Brexit day, any UK boats that want to move into the EU would have to be imported into the EU (paying import duty etc - just like any boats outside the EU now would have to do) .
But any that are there on Bexit day would already be in the EU - the T2L just confirms this.
The T2L is a bit of a "No Brainer" - doesn't cost anything and HMRC will certify it before Brexit.
I guess this is all No Deal scenario.

The bike example is a temporary import isn't it?????
 
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Hurricane said:
The bike example is a temporary import isn't it?????
Click to expand...
Yes but under a no deal scenario, presumably the worst case scenario is that temporary import regulations are suspended for the UK. Even if they arent suspended I know from my business that importing something into the EU from a non EU country under temporary import regulations is a nightmare of customs paperwork and I cannot see members of UK Joe Public coping with that just for a 2 week EU holiday in the sun by car or bike

Yes the T2L may be a bit of a no brainer and I suppose its worth doing if it costs nothing but I still dont see the advantage if youve got a proper VAT invoice. Btw in 15 yrs boating in the Med, I have never been asked for proof of VAT payment. I've been asked for lots of other things by officials but not that. Have you ever been asked for proof of VAT?
 
Deleted User said:
Have you ever been asked for proof of VAT?
Click to expand...

No, never but the boat is privately registered on the Part 1 register - AFAIK, private registration implies that the boat is VAT paid (well in most cases anyway). I am always asked for the boat's registration docs (Part 1).

This is an extract from the RYA's notes on T2L registration

The majority of EU countries seldom conduct such checks. Where checks are made, for boats of EU-origin the VAT invoice showing the amount of VAT that was paid and that the vessel was originally purchased in the EU (and was therefore not subject to customs duty) is usually sufficient evidence of the boat's community status. For imported boats, evidence of payment of VAT and customs duty (if any) on import is required.
 
Hurricane said:
No, never but the boat is privately registered on the Part 1 register - AFAIK, private registration implies that the boat is VAT paid (well in most cases anyway). I am always asked for the boat's registration docs (Part 1).

This is an extract from the RYA's notes on T2L registration

The majority of EU countries seldom conduct such checks. Where checks are made, for boats of EU-origin the VAT invoice showing the amount of VAT that was paid and that the vessel was originally purchased in the EU (and was therefore not subject to customs duty) is usually sufficient evidence of the boat's community status. For imported boats, evidence of payment of VAT and customs duty (if any) on import is required.
Click to expand...

Yes registration document and sometimes passports and insurance certificate and in Croatia the cruising vignette and crew list as well but never the VAT invoice. Not in France, Spain, Balearics, Croatia or Italy. Even when I got caught by the authorities in Majorca for matriculation tax they never asked for the VAT invoice. That might change of course so I'm not being complacent. As I said previously I do wonder whether re-registering the boat in an EU country such as Holland before Brexit day might mean your boat gets less attention in the future? Having said that, there are so many UK flagged boats in the Med owned not only by Brits but by EU citizens and other foreigners that any crackdown on UK flagged boats is going to cause uproar so hopefully sense prevails
 
Hurricane said:
Thats not what the RYA and the Cruising Association are saying.
The latest thoughts are that the T2L is only effective at retaining EU Union Goods status for boats actually in EU on Brexit day, and that boats in UK will immediately lose Union Goods status and hence become subject to the 18 month temporary import rules..... as long as they are sailed by Non EU RESIDENT. The CA are in the process of trying to confirm this with an EU commission source.

So, to me, it isn't all about VAT.
It seems to me that a boat that is in the UK now without a T2L and wants to cruise inside the EU after Brexit might have to be imported into the EU post Brexit.
But I'm no expert - just reading the rumours and passing them on.

It would be good to hear what the tax experts who post on here think.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't the UK be treated like any other third country? I.e. 18 months limit in the EU?

Brits will also be limited to 90 days out of 180 in the Schengen zone, which is why I've now got myself residency in the EU and have applied to exchange my UK driving license - I can't earn a living without it.
 
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