Portugal issue??

To date not my experience.

Provided we emailed SEF, they sent a document that confirmed we had applied for a biometric residency permit to replace our existing A4 residency permit. They confirmed that the current A4 documentation would remain valid until they had interviewed the applicant and replaced it with a biometric residency permit.

This is still the current situation and we have yet to be contacted to come forward for interview by SEF.

The resident y permit is only required when entering and leaving the EU to confirm status. Athough electronic scanning of the UK passport also confirms this.

When in country U.K. residents are supposed to carry their passport as an identity document. Many don’t and I am unaware of anybody being picked up on this.

Access to the Portuguese Health Service (SNS) is by a personal (Utente) Health number, which has nothing to do with residency documentation.

For UK pensioners the S1 scheme gives them access to Portugal Social Services, whilst still retaining the right to free NHS cover when in the UK.

Interesting this has just come up as the Portuguese Council of Ministers - their government issued the following declaration just last Thursday.

New law for foreigners in Portugal approved, which suggests everything is moving forward at the usual pace in Portugal.

Concern had been growing that the Portuguese A4 documentation would not be compatible with the Schengen Data Base but understand there are more delays on that front.

No doubt there are many other angles and somebody will soon be along to add more detail.
 
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Immigration is in chaos. It all stems from a couple of SEF immigration officials beating an immigrant to death in the cells, no idea what he'd done to piss them off. As a result, it was decided to disband SEF (dept of immigration) and split their duties between a new dept. and other existing ones, then along came Covid with a virtual shut down of all government offices and no chance of getting an appointment.

The original biometric card evidently didn't meet EU criteria so new ones had to be designed. They started issuing them in the Azores and an agency has recently been appointed in Cascais to issue them to those in Lisbon area, I've no idea what's happening in the rest of the country or when we'll be called in to receive them.

In the meantime, all old residence documents (temporary and permanent) are still valid for use in country and when transiting other Schengen countries. For us personally, nothing has changed, just the usual frustration in dealing with bureaucracy and guessing which official will want to see which documents - everything varies depending on who's dealing with cases.
 
According to the Guardian article the real problem was German border control not accepting the Portuguese interim residence documents.
Can not see why the guy had to pay for his hospital treatment unless he had not registered for a Portuguese social security number and/or a health utente number.
Prior to getting my Biometric card I kept a note in my wallet with my three numbers and this was enough for hospital treatment when I arrived, unconscious, by ambulance. I also had documents on file from each department confirming the numbers. These original documents had to be submitted when interviewed by SEF for the biometric card, initially the Portuguese card then a few months later the EU/Brexit card.
 
Graham376 said:
Immigration is in chaos. It all stems from a couple of SEF immigration officials beating an immigrant to death in the cells, no idea what he'd done to piss them off. As a result, it was decided to disband SEF (dept of immigration) and split their duties between a new dept. and other existing ones, then along came Covid with a virtual shut down of all government offices and no chance of getting an appointment.

The original biometric card evidently didn't meet EU criteria so new ones had to be designed. They started issuing them in the Azores and an agency has recently been appointed in Cascais to issue them to those in Lisbon area, I've no idea what's happening in the rest of the country or when we'll be called in to receive them.

In the meantime, all old residence documents (temporary and permanent) are still valid for use in country and when transiting other Schengen countries. For us personally, nothing has changed, just the usual frustration in dealing with bureaucracy and guessing which official will want to see which documents - everything varies depending on who's dealing with cases.
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From reading the article the problem lies not in Portugal but when trying to use the document when transiting through other European countries and it not being accepted as a proof of residence. The example being of a couple transiting through Germany. Such problems will continue to occur until harmonised biometric residency cards are issued throughout the EU countries. But you all know who to thank.
 
srm said:
According to the Guardian article the real problem was German border control not accepting the Portuguese interim residence documents.
Can not see why the guy had to pay for his hospital treatment unless he had not registered for a Portuguese social security number and/or a health utente number.
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Maybe the guy you mention hadn't obtained utente no. or have a German EHIC so he would be charged. No-one I know here has had any problems obtaining State heath care and a friend with temporary residence is having radio and chemo cancer treatment at the moment.

I can't have a social security number, as never payed into the system and didn't formally immigrate, just registered presence/residence under pre-Brexit rules.
Have utente number and registered with doctor but, IIRC my EHIC number is noted on my registration record. Not going down the S1 route as still seen as UK resident as well.
 
Graham376 said:
Maybe the guy you mention hadn't obtained utente no. or have a German EHIC so he would be charged. No-one I know here has had any problems obtaining State heath care and a friend with temporary residence is having radio and chemo cancer treatment at the moment.

I can't have a social security number, as never payed into the system and didn't formally immigrate, just registered presence/residence under pre-Brexit rules.
Have utente number and registered with doctor but, IIRC my EHIC number is noted on my registration record. Not going down the S1 route as still seen as UK resident as well.
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That is an abuse of the EHIC which is for short term temporary stays outside of the UK, typically holidays and short term working.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
That is an abuse of the EHIC which is for short term temporary stays outside of the UK, typically holidays and short term working.
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Depends on how one looks at it, not designed for the use but abuse? Quite easy for us retired folks to fill in an S1 form to have all medical care here and in the UK paid for by UK gov. so, it's just a case of which route is used to obtain the same money from the same kitty. As it happens, it's many years since I needed to see a doctor here anyway so nothing has been charged.

Unlike some, we spend roughly half the year here (extended holiday) and the other in the UK and S1 is a declaration of having left so has implications for UK tax residence.
 
Graham376 said:
Depends on how one looks at it, not designed for the use but abuse? Quite easy for us retired folks to fill in an S1 form to have all medical care here and in the UK paid for by UK gov. so, it's just a case of which route is used to obtain the same money from the same kitty. As it happens, it's many years since I needed to see a doctor here anyway so nothing has been charged.

Unlike some, we spend roughly half the year here (extended holiday) and the other in the UK and S1 is a declaration of having left so has implications for UK tax residence.
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Exactly neither applies to your position to be funded from the UK an anomaly perhaps but as the definitions of both stand neither is applicable.
 
Like most newspaper stories it's alarmist and probably based on exceptions.

I have traveled frequenly since Brexit and the Portuguese temporary resident documentation has been accepted in both France and Spain and my passport not stamped.

Hence my experience is similar to Nortada's and Graham's above.

The SEF are trying to catch up in issuing the EU biometric card but the threat of being disbanded and the pandemic has caused delays.

We are still getting new UK nationals settling here post Brexit. One couple returned to the UK yesterday to formally apply for a permit to stay in Portugal for which they have applied through the Portuguese Embassy in UK. Portugal still welcomes immigrants that can prove they are financially independant and not going to be a burden on the country nor their health system hence effectively contributing to the economy.

Unfortunately lack of opportunities still cause many young Portuguese to seek better job opportunities abroad so these population losses are roughly balanced by immigrants often retired ones like us.

Friendliness weather and low cost of living make Portugal attractive and no arrogance regarding language with many (especially the young) speaking English.

We commented on one assistants excellent english in the Portuguese equivalent of B & Q and he said he learnt English by being a Harry Potter fan and watching the films with Portuguese subtitles - I was aware that many learn English due to pop music but Hsrry Potter was a new one to me!

We got a Utente No (health system here) through the S1 form. Not sure whether the cheaper treatment here is ever charged back to NHS as probably equivalent cost to Portuguese employed in UK using the NHS.

We are fully settled in Portugal and submit a tax return as Non Habitual Residents (its a legal term) in Portugal and having sold my rented property in UK - so no UK income - the HMRC no longer require me to submit a self assessment tax return.
 
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Sailfree said:
Like most newspaper stories it's alarmist and probably based on exceptions.

I have traveled frequenly since Brexit and the Portuguese temporary resident documentation has been accepted in both France and Spain and my passport not stamped.

Hence my experience is similar to Nortada's and Graham's above.

The SEF are trying to catch up in issuing the EU biometric card but the threat of being disbanded and the pandemic has caused delays.

We are still getting new UK nationals settling here post Brexit. One couple returned to the UK yesterday to formally apply for a permit to stay in Portugal for which they have applied through the Portuguese Embassy in UK. Portugal still welcomes immigrants that can prove they are financially independant and not going to be a burden on the country nor their health system hence effectively contributing to the economy.

Unfortunately lack of opportunities still cause many young Portuguese to seek better job opportunities abroad so these population losses are roughly balanced by immigrants often retired ones like us.

Friendliness weather and low cost of living make Portugal attractive and no arrogance regarding language with many (especially the young) speaking English.

We commented on one assistants excellent english in the Portuguese equivalent of B & Q and he said he learnt English by being a Harry Potter fan and watching the films with Portuguese subtitles - I was aware that many learn English due to pop music but Hsrry Potter was a new one to me!

We got a Utente No (health system here) through the S1 form. Not sure whether the cheaper treatment here is ever charged back to NHS as probably equivalent cost to Portuguese employed in UK using the NHS.

We are fully settled in Portugal and submit a tax return as Non Habitual Residents (its a legal term) in Portugal and having sold my rented property in UK - so no UK income - the HMRC no longer require me to submit a self assessment tax return.
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If you have an S1 your health (Ustente) No will probably identify you as having one, my Carte Vital in France certainly does and that then allows them to recharge the UK at the same rate as a treating national for the treatment received. I asked about this when I was registering my CV at hospital and the receptionist pointed out the unique identifier linked to my S1.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
If you have an S1 your health (Ustente) No will probably identify you as having one, my Carte Vital in France certainly does and that then allows them to recharge the UK at the same rate as a treating national for the treatment received. I asked about this when I was registering my CV at hospital and the receptionist pointed out the unique identifier linked to my S1.
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I suspect France health system is better organised in knowing patient treatment costs from my understanding with a close friend that moved to Brittany some 20yrs ago.

I am fairly certain the UK NHS has no way of costing patient treatment nor sorting who is eligible for free treatment(no UK ID card) so doubt if any EU nationals treatment is ever charged back to original country. Most though would be working in UK and paying tax under PAYE.

I suspect the admin of recharging for Portuguese health treatment is equally difficult.

Many countries identify treatment costs but "free at the point of use" results in any attempt at costing to incur extra admin costs.
 
Sailfree said:
I suspect France health system is better organised in knowing patient treatment costs from my understanding with a close friend that moved to Brittany some 20yrs ago.

I am fairly certain the UK NHS has no way of costing patient treatment nor sorting who is eligible for free treatment(no UK ID card) so doubt if any EU nationals treatment is ever charged back to original country. Most though would be working in UK and paying tax under PAYE.

I suspect the admin of recharging for Portuguese health treatment is equally difficult.

Many countries identify treatment costs but "free at the point of use" results in any attempt at costing to incur extra admin costs.
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That is quite possibly true but what I said was that EU countries have much better organised Health systems and are used to processing payment from nationals and visitors alike and it is they that invoice under the S1 the UK for payment for treatment, the UK simply pays the bill the fact that it doesn't take advantage of the reciprocity of the system for foreign nationals is down to UK incompetence.
 
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Fr J Hackett said:
That is quite possibly true but what I said was that EU countries have much better organised Health systems and are used to processing payment from nationals and visitors alike and it is they that invoice under the S1 the UK for payment for treatment, the UK simply pays the bill the fact that it doesn't take advantage of the reciprocity of the system for foreign nationals is down to UK incompetence.
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I agree and while so many choose to believe the UK has the best health care system and the best army etc etc in the world they will never be open minded about adopting others ideas and systems.

If you live in a cave and never go outside you can believe you have the best home in the world.

My wife used to work for the NHS and was appalled at the time and cost it took to arrange for translators to do a home visit with her for any mum that spoke no English. We both know what the French would say to that!!
 
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Sailfree said:
Like most newspaper stories it's alarmist and probably based on exceptions.

I have traveled frequenly since Brexit and the Portuguese temporary resident documentation has been accepted in both France and Spain and my passport not stamped.

Hence my experience is similar to Nortada's and Graham's above.

The SEF are trying to catch up in issuing the EU biometric card but the threat of being disbanded and the pandemic has caused delays.

We are still getting new UK nationals settling here post Brexit. One couple returned to the UK yesterday to formally apply for a permit to stay in Portugal for which they have applied through the Portuguese Embassy in UK. Portugal still welcomes immigrants that can prove they are financially independant and not going to be a burden on the country nor their health system hence effectively contributing to the economy.

Unfortunately lack of opportunities still cause many young Portuguese to seek better job opportunities abroad so these population losses are roughly balanced by immigrants often retired ones like us.

Friendliness weather and low cost of living make Portugal attractive and no arrogance regarding language with many (especially the young) speaking English.

We commented on one assistants excellent english in the Portuguese equivalent of B & Q and he said he learnt English by being a Harry Potter fan and watching the films with Portuguese subtitles - I was aware that many learn English due to pop music but Hsrry Potter was a new one to me!

We got a Utente No (health system here) through the S1 form. Not sure whether the cheaper treatment here is ever charged back to NHS as probably equivalent cost to Portuguese employed in UK using the NHS.

We are fully settled in Portugal and submit a tax return as Non Habitual Residents (its a legal term) in Portugal and having sold my rented property in UK - so no UK income - the HMRC no longer require me to submit a self assessment tax return.
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And they don’t have subtitles on films unlikeSpanish who dubthefilms
 
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