Portland Tidal Streams - Getting confused

Its a long old way from Dartmouth to Poole in one hop. I have done it a number of times but only with a strong westerly or South westerly behind me. If the wind is naff it is too far and the tide will thwart your progress. Weymouth or Portland are the only comfortable alternatives. My experience of Lulworth is rarely comfortable overnight as a swell almost always spoils things especially on spring tides.
Quickest option is Portland Marina but I would go outside the Shambles and then North as the tide never seems to be right when you arrive at the inner passage after the long flog over Lyme Bay. Good luck whatever you decide!
 
It seems to work out OK though; possibly the best way to do it if one's brutally honest and considering Portland, is motor sailing at relatively high speed in favourable light winds, especially if the OP is not that experienced.

I completely agree about Lulworth Cove - and Chapmans Pool - don't even think about staying overnight and be pretty damn careful for short daytime visits, a big enough swell to trap then pulverise one can come up quickly.
 
MagicIsland said:
Weather permitting planning a trip from Dartmouth to Weymouth next Mon 23rd, Reeds recommends arriving Plymouth HW-2 to HW ( 8:50am HW spring) but this would mean a 2am departure and we have limited night time sailing. The above also means you have a foul tide across Lyme Bay.
Our plan having studied the almanac is to Depart Dartmouth and be passing Mew stone at 6am, arriving Portland 1pm Plymouth HW+4 3nm south then passing east of the Shambles and having a slight foul tide up to Weymouth.

All the tidal streams will be with us around the south of Portland but having read so much about it (channel pilot talks of ships lost without trace) I'm now doubting everything I've done, is 3nm south of Portland enough to be able to pass Plymouth HW+4 ?
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I have lost count of the number of times I have been round the Bill and I have always used the inside passage. In daylight and reasonable weather it is perfectly possible at any state of the tide, provided the tide is with you, However, it is preferable to go through at slack water so that the pots are visible. When approaching from the west the pilots advise you to close the Bill about 2 miles north of the promentory and then follow it round close in. For years I thought that was a waste of time and just aimed to pass the regulation 50 to 100 metres off. However, one year after a rough crossing of Lyme Bay the wind was dying and I was looking forward to just coasting gently past under sail. As we approached the Bill we could see that even in the calm weather the spring tide was kicking up big waves in the race although the calm of the inshore passage was clearly visible. However, about half a mile off it became obvious that we were being set hard to the south. I turned the engine on and headed due north at full throttle - about 6.5 Knots. It wasn't enough. We could make hardly any northing and were swept sideways into the race about 200 metres in. The wind having died the waves were not breaking but it was pretty spectacular and prompted the coastguard watch to put out a call about a yacht in distress in the race. I had to call them up and reassure them we weren't in distress, just embarrassed.

If you go on the 23rd you will be on springs - If you decide to use the inshore passage follow the advice and close the shore well to the north and then follow the shore line close in.

The following clip I took shows the inshore passage on a neapish tide about an hour into the west going stream.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgg_wMGZXaA#t=5m50s
 
PeterR said:
I have lost count of the number of times I have been round the Bill and I have always used the inside passage. In daylight and reasonable weather it is perfectly possible at any state of the tide, provided the tide is with you, However, it is preferable to go through at slack water so that the pots are visible. When approaching from the west the pilots advise you to close the Bill about 2 miles north of the promentory and then follow it round close in. For years I thought that was a waste of time and just aimed to pass the regulation 50 to 100 metres off. However, one year after a rough crossing of Lyme Bay the wind was dying and I was looking forward to just coasting gently past under sail. As we approached the Bill we could see that even in the calm weather the spring tide was kicking up big waves in the race although the calm of the inshore passage was clearly visible. However, about half a mile off it became obvious that we were being set hard to the south. I turned the engine on and headed due north at full throttle - about 6.5 Knots. It wasn't enough. We could make hardly any northing and were swept sideways into the race about 200 metres in. The wind having died the waves were not breaking but it was pretty spectacular and prompted the coastguard watch to put out a call about a yacht in distress in the race. I had to call them up and reassure them we weren't in distress, just embarrassed.

If you go on the 23rd you will be on springs - If you decide to use the inshore passage follow the advice and close the shore well to the north and then follow the shore line close in.

The following clip I took shows the inshore passage on a neapish tide about an hour into the west going stream.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgg_wMGZXaA#t=5m50s
Click to expand...

The thought of been dragged into the race is a little bit of a concern considering it's springs.
With all the great advice the plan is evolving, we are now planning to head for Brixham as I know the Harbour and will be less nervous exiting in the dark, we will then depart a couple of hours earlier to pass the bill well south and hope to press on to poole with Weymouth/Portland as a plan B, setting off from Poole will give us a nice tide window to head to Brighton, we don't mind having a long passage if the weather is as forecast, better than been in the office ;-)
 
MagicIsland,

when I was committed to the inshore passage and the wind came up to a lot more than advertised or desired, I still found a strong set S into the Race at the SW tip of the Bill despite plentiful sail power, we crashed through the edge overfalls - it was hectic slalom steering for a few minutes then we burst through into flat water, I vowed I'd never aim for the inshore passage from the West again, too much time for the weather to change and one has to commit N into the bay.

Anyway your current plan sounds a lot less stress, including kicking off from Brixham.

It's a fair old hop from Poole to Brighton though, I'd think a stop in Cowes or Chichester would be an idea; once you've got this leg under your belt keep in touch !
 
Approaching The Bill from the west to take the inshore route eastwards you need ideally to target arrival a bit north of the 'end' and then hug the point as you round to avoid being set south into the area of the rough water, the tide sets south strongly on both sides of the bill towards the tide race but from the east you are naturally approaching the head from northwards ( probably from Weymouth or Portland) , whereas from the west you will have made a 40-42ml crossing of Lyme Bay so timing and the exact arrival point is less easy to predict unless you 'aim off' a bit to the north and then turn hang a right and turn south as you arrive off the chesil beach area. I hope that is not as confusing as it sounds....
 
I've never done the inshore passage, but have done plenty of Lyme Bay crossings over the years and have always given the Bill a wide berth. We usually do the trip back to the Solent in one long slog from Dartmouth, either aiming for Yarmouth or Hamble. This year, we had to leave Salcombe earlier than planned as the forecast predicted Easterly winds, so left 6pm in the evening to get the end of the flood tide to help punch us around Start point and planned to reach Portland at the beginning of the next flood tide (having motored across the bay in unbelievably calm conditions- it was like the proverbial millpond). We then made for Poole having timed arrival off St.Alban's head mid flood ( and just clipped the over falls there: they can be exciting as well). Arrived Poole Quay Yacht Haven by 10am having motored most of the way. Having read all of the posts, I struggle to see the advantage of the inshore passage if travelling east unless you definitely want to call in to Portland ( super marina, but I agree, feels very isolated) or Weymouth. Westwards does look good if departing from the former, but my paranoia about getting a prop-wrap( which we seem to have quite a skill at) means I prefer to give Portland a wide berth.
 
yotdoc,

I'm with you; nowadays even going West I set off usually from Studland and go outside The Race, setting off at night and arriving in daylight.

Robin,

when I got caught out using the inshore passage from the West ( Dartmouth ) it started as motoring in a calm so I committed us well North into the bay so as not to be set into the Race; we went close to the Bill near Chesil Beach then ran alongside it, by this time a F7 ( a phrase from Adlard Coles kept running through my mind, " in winds above F6 the inshore passage ceases to exist " ) - I thought about heading into wind & tide & trying to beat back to Lyme Regis but it was just self & fiancee so I thought fatigue would be a big problem.

I wasn't particularly cheered up by noticing a few Coastguards watching !

It worked out oK in the end but the approach to the Bill with the wind and waves rising and a line of broken white water on the horizon ahead was the longest few hours of my life.
 
Seajet said:
yotdoc,

I'm with you; nowadays even going West I set off usually from Studland and go outside The Race, setting off at night and arriving in daylight.

Robin,

when I got caught out using the inshore passage from the West ( Dartmouth ) it started as motoring in a calm so I committed us well North into the bay so as not to be set into the Race; we went close to the Bill near Chesil Beach then ran alongside it, by this time a F7 ( a phrase from Adlard Coles kept running through my mind, " in winds above F6 the inshore passage ceases to exist " ) - I thought about heading into wind & tide & trying to beat back to Lyme Regis but it was just self & fiancee so I thought fatigue would be a big problem.

I wasn't particularly cheered up by noticing a few Coastguards watching !

It worked out oK in the end but the approach to the Bill with the wind and waves rising and a line of broken white water on the horizon ahead was the longest few hours of my life.
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Did you get married?
 
Yes but not to the girl mentioned here !

I must say she did well during that episode though, while going through the overfalls the kicker was bounced out of the boom socket and although not a sailor, without prompting she went on deck ( clipped on ) and fixed it to prevent the boom skying, we could well have done without a Chinese Gybe at the time.

She did sail with me plenty more times if that's what you're getting at.
 
If you leave Dartmouth to reach Portland at the recommended window to round the Bill eastbound, the tides are such that you always have to start off against the tide if your boat does around 5 kt average, but the tidal streams at that end are weak, around 1 – 1.5 kt, so it’s no big deal. It’s the Portland end that matters, you’ve got to get that right.

What we did this year to avoid an uncivilised early start was to stop over at Bridport (West Bay) which is about 3 hrs from the Bill, so left at 8 for an 11 am rounding. But draught is restricted, phone the very helpful Harbour Master to check.

We used to take the outside route, default setting 3 miles off (this is south of the race in normal conditions) it all depends on the wind. Once eastbound with a f5 behind us, i.e. with the tide, it was uncomfortable but not dangerous at 3 miles – but we had to go round the East Shambles buoy in those conditions, which adds miles. Once with just a f3 NE, but wind against tide, we chose 4 miles off, there were big swells between there and E. Shambles, breaking on Shambles bank.

I generally prefer the inside passage now, this year westbound at springs (slightly lower range than next Monday) but at slackish water the pots were easily visible, but there was no wind and it was like a boating lake. It all depends on wind strength and direction. Once we did wait a full week at Dartmouth for strong winds to ease – but there are far worse places to be weather-bound.
 
Just got back from our trip, we had to leave the Boat in Harwich as the wind and swell from the east was making the passage more and endurance test than a pleasure, the trip from Ramsgate on Monday was very bumpy.
We ended up traveling from Dartmouth to West Bay on the Monday so on the Tuesday we could arrive at the inland passage just before slack water,the sea was slight and the race was easy to see to our south a few meters away, the passage was much narrower than I had imagined and there was quite a few pots to avoid but we made it through without any hiccups. We then went on to Poole and found tacking passed St Albans head a lot more eventful. Thanks for all the advice !
 
Pleased to hear the Portland plan worked ok. Yes, the St Alban's race can be a pain. Under suitable conditions of wind and tide (and the gunnery ranges) there's a good inshore passage which I've used many times, but one time westbound as we got near to the inshore passage it seemed filled with breakers, so we did a five mile slog to the south to get round the almost unending line of white water. I suppose a difference from Portland is that there is less risk of getting dragged into it, as the stream rates are lower.
 
Forgive my ignorance, I've never been round Portland Bill on my own boat (did as crew maybe 20 years ago, but way offshore). I did plan a trip from Lyme Regis to Portland this spring (in my then boat, a small gaffer) but in the end didn't fancy getting up in the middle of the night to get the tides right for the inshore passage. I've always felt the inshore passage was only viable with favourable winds - in a calm, there is always a risk of fouling the prop and then you don't have sails to get you out of trouble, so you're stuffed. Interesting the last time I drove up to the Bill, all the yachts I saw going west to east were between 0.5km to 1.5km offshore - right in the race had the conditions been less benign.
 
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