Portable diesel containers

[bluerm166]

As a small user I find that I can normally fill my robust plastic 10L container ( of unknown composition) with white diesel at the pumps,normally arriving in a vehicle.Having read the new regulations though I was not totally surprised to be turned away from a central London garage last week when I needed to top up the boat,and didn't want to head further upstream against the tide to the apparently only fuel barge on the lower Thames.(This in any case turned out to be closed)
Since I was on foot I ended up by buying two cheap and poorly designed 5L plastic containers from Tesco and heading then for their petrol forecourt.
But it strikes me that the regulations are couched particularly in terms of carriage in motor vehicles (although also storage) and the RYA statement refers to carriage in vehicles.I though was arriving on foot.I daresay that Shell have their own rules anyway and I did not blame the original attendant,who was most apologetic as he charged me 53pence for the amount I filled before he spotted me.
So what do the lawyers think,do the regs. actually apply if you arrive on foot,as you often might if 'caught short' whilst en voyage ?.

 

[prv]

So what do the lawyers think,do the regs. actually apply if you arrive on foot,as you often might if 'caught short' whilst en voyage ?.

These regs don't apply to diesel in the first place, only petrol. But the garages seem to consider this nuance too complicated for their staff, and have a blanket rule for both

Application is patchy; I've several times filled a friend's 22litre plastic cans with petrol without comment.

Maybe get a metal can for your diesel?

Pete

 

[Alan ashore]

As a small user I find that I can normally fill my robust plastic 10L container ( of unknown composition) with white diesel at the pumps,normally arriving in a vehicle.Having read the new regulations though

Can you please refer us to those new regulations? I was under the impression that this practice is perfectly legal.

 

[davidpbo]

I found this on line. No Idea if it is still relevant.

http://www.bmaa.org/upload/U215970_petroleum-faqs.pdf

5L of petrol, 10L of Diesel in plastic containers I thought.
I suspect petrol station owners may have their own rules.

 

[prv]

Can you please refer us to those new regulations? I was under the impression that this practice is perfectly legal.

Not sure there's anything new. For many years the rule (I think technically it's a condition of the supplier's license to run the garage, but they're all the same) has been that petrol can only be dispensed into plastic containers if they hold five litres or less, or metal up to twenty litres. The cap has to either screw on or have some form of positive locking, which rules out the original MOD jerrycans with hook-shaped catches. "Dedicated tanks for portable equipment" (eg outboard motor remote tanks) are excluded, and no mention of diesel.

The garages' staff training tends to simply this to "no fuel into plastic cans bigger than five litres".

Pete

 

[Yngmar]

Are Jerry Cans legal? What is the law on fuel cans?

Includes advice on how to deal with pesky petrol station owners ;-)

 

[simonfraser]

my local petrol station allows 25L plastic containers, its in the country side

 

[NickRobinson]

I use jerrys for diesel. Only been challenged once, I rolled my eyes and said it's good enough for the army and was allowed to continue.
I've not heard of the 'positive locking method'. My newer jerry has a pin which does this. Surely those 5l plastic jobbies sold by garages do not have positive locking caps?

 

[Bru]

Are Jerry Cans legal? What is the law on fuel cans?

Includes advice on how to deal with pesky petrol station owners ;-)

The article is generally accurate but omits one key fact, alluded to by Pete above, which is that the limit on the number of cans which can be filled is specified in the Site Petroleum Licence

The standard licence terms are 2 x 5l, 1 x 10l or 1 x 20l plus portable fuel tanks up to (from memory, I think) 30l or it may be 35l.

It is not an arbitrary policy decision by the forecourt operators, as the article implies, breaching the terms of the licence is an offence under the relevant legislation

Some operators do, as suggested, go further and decline to permit the filling of "Jerry" cans requiring that containers be screw top only. This is because it is often not feasible or practical to require staff to check whether a "Jerry" can is UN approved and fitted with a locking pin as required by the regulations

Trading Standards, acting on behalf of the Petroleum Officer, routinely carry out tests by trying to fill a) an obviously illegal container, b) too many legal containers and /or c) a non-UN approved "Jerry" can

Woe betide the member of staff who authorises the pump and fails these tests. It's a serious disciplinary matter

 

[Bru]

PS. I forgot to add, as always, that the Site Petroleum Licence conditions apply to both petrol AND diesel. A quirk of history though it may be, that is just how it is

 

[prv]

I've not heard of the 'positive locking method'. My newer jerry has a pin which does this. Surely those 5l plastic jobbies sold by garages do not have positive locking caps?

All the plastic cans I've seen have screw caps, which count. It's only the lever/hook type closures which need an additional mechanism such as your pin.

Pete

 

[NickRobinson]

All the plastic cans I've seen have screw caps, which count. It's only the lever/hook type closures which need an additional mechanism such as your pin.

Pete

Got it- :encouragement: though the trouble I've sometimes had screwing those tops on tight enough to stop them dripping,I'd pass on the secure bit.

 

[Laysula]

A lot depends on whether the cashier can see you from behind her till.

 

[Chalker]

A lot depends on whether the cashier can see you from behind her till.

Or on the CCTV.....

 

[Bru]

A lot depends on whether the cashier can see you from behind her till.

Sexist or what, it might be a him

Or on the CCTV.....

Indeed. And the cashier can get into a lot of grief if they authorise the pump without being able to see what's being filled

(If you're paying attention, it's pretty obvious whether the hose is in the vehicle filler or not.)

 

[ShinyShoe]

Go Self Service ;-)

 

[Bru]

Go Self Service ;-)

Yep

(In theory, the same licence conditions apply and are supposed to be enforced by remote CCTV monitoring. In practice ...)

 

[ProDave]

Why not buy a 20L black plastic Jerry can designed for diesel? I am never refused white, or even red diesel in that.

The rules on Petrol are strange. Our club uses a lot of petrol for the RIB's. They claim they investigated the law and although you can only buy petrol in 5L containers, there is no limit on how many, so they regularly take a boot full of 5L petrol containers to the local garage and fill them all in one go.

 

[earlybird]

Why not buy a 20L black plastic Jerry can designed for diesel? I am never refused white, or even red diesel in that.

The rules on Petrol are strange. Our club uses a lot of petrol for the RIB's. They claim they investigated the law and although you can only buy petrol in 5L containers, there is no limit on how many, so they regularly take a boot full of 5L petrol containers to the local garage and fill them all in one go.

There are limits on storage of petrol at home, club etc. other than in the fixed tank of a vehicle. Up to 30l may be stored without any need to notify anyone, although storage and handling conditions apply. A greater quantity, up to a maximum of 275l requires notification, so more than 6 x 5l containers would probably trigger this requirement.

 

[bluerm166]

So it seems that petrol stations are conflating forecourt rules and the recent classification of diesel as a 'Flammable Substance ' ,primarily affecting the workplace and transport, to harden up on rules that have been based on petrol, to include diesel.
Well I won't chuck away my robust 10L plastic screw top diesel container ,but I'll keep the new labelled and certified containers handy when I go to the forecourt.