Port Volvo Penta D3 200 AG disel engine cranks but will not start - no fault codes and was OK at end of July 2021.

[Doc Holiday]

I left my boat in the South of France at the end of July 2021 with both D3 22 engines running and starting very easily. They have both completed circa 180 hours of starting and running perfectly, but on returning to the marina in France at the start of October 2021, the port engine would crank but would not start. No fault codes were displayed and fuel flow could be monitored on the 2 1/2 Volvo penta instrument while cranking. Battery level does not seem to be the problem as it turned over very quickly and even with the emergency parallel battery mode engaged it would not start. The enginse have new air filters (the vanes of the turbo turn easily), the main fuel supply has new separate filters to both engines, and the engine fuel filter has no sign of water or contamination in it after draining the filter to examine the fuel. I made an arrangement for a local Volvo Penta dealer to visit at 08:00 on the Monday before I left. I turned up but the dealer declared at the last minute that he was too busy and could not test the engine with his Vodia laptop. I will not be back until January 2022 but would like any pointers at what I could look at and what could be wrong. I have swopped the main relays mounted on the engine with those of the starboard side and there was no change. The engine fuse was not blown and the circuit breaker was not activated. I could also press the fuel primer and hear the fuel pump feeding the engine filter. I hope it is something simple but I just don't know where to look anymore, any suggestions welcome.

 

[SC35]

You'll need someone with a Vodia laptop to tell you what's going on.
Could be a failed ECU, could be anything, most likely electronic issue rather than mechanical, given your description.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Thank you. The system reports faults when I remove fuses or a relay - would that still happen with a failed ÉCU? Would the Vodia laptop detect issues not shown on the engine’s 2 1/2 inch display?

 

[Portofino]

1- What sort of fire suppression system has it got ? Some seafire type systems have an interlock linked to the stop solenoids
If faulty the engine will not fire .

2- The stop solenoid on the engine itself .Some need energising to work some the other way power off to run .What does the diagnostic tree in the operators manual say about cranking and not firing ?

3- Thinking EDC common rail electrotwackerey issue .
All the pins on all the black box connectors need continuity checks and cleaning maybe ? But no lights on your screen ?

4 - A emergency stop switch somewhere accidentally pressed ?? Either on the helm or in the ER ?,…..long shot admittedly , you have not mentioned anything about theses if at fitted ?,

5 - I am not familiar with the helm(s) throttle bodies but we al know they need to be in N to turn over ie power up the starter motor but maybe another solinoid needs activating ( see 2 ^^^ ) as well to “run “ and the throttle body is not playing ball .Are the micro switches healthy basically ? Again refer to the manual ? But your screen should display a code if so ?

As mentioned a tech with a correct lap top theses days should see the fault .There supposed we are told on this forum plenty of suitable VP techs about in every marina ?

Could be a faulty sensor a critical sensor the ECU needs to see its input before allowing fuel or power to the injectors , but no msg on your screen so unlikely .

I guess a faulty fire suppression system might not register on the screen as it’s not a Volvo thing it’s an aftermarket add on interrupting a working stop solenoid .The ECU and thus screen may not realise it’s been molested thus your screens silent .

You have not said anything about the ER fire suppression system fitted .

 

[Mr Googler]

Lack of fuel?

Fuel valve open?

Filters full and bled?

 

[petem]

Do you have to be present for the VP guys to visit? I just give mine access to the keys and let them get on with it.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Low fuel pressure (or presumed low fuel pressure if the sender is faulty) will stop an engine from starting. Vodia will tell.

 

[ShaneAtSea]

I know its a long shot but have you tried "The Fonzie" method?

Might work

 

[Doc Holiday]

1- What sort of fire suppression system has it got ? Some seafire type systems have an interlock linked to the stop solenoids
If faulty the engine will not fire .

2- The stop solenoid on the engine itself .Some need energising to work some the other way power off to run .What does the diagnostic tree in the operators manual say about cranking and not firing ?

3- Thinking EDC common rail electrotwackerey issue .
All the pins on all the black box connectors need continuity checks and cleaning maybe ? But no lights on your screen ?

4 - A emergency stop switch somewhere accidentally pressed ?? Either on the helm or in the ER ?,…..long shot admittedly , you have not mentioned anything about theses if at fitted ?,

5 - I am not familiar with the helm(s) throttle bodies but we al know they need to be in N to turn over ie power up the starter motor but maybe another solinoid needs activating ( see 2 ^^^ ) as well to “run “ and the throttle body is not playing ball .Are the micro switches healthy basically ? Again refer to the manual ? But your screen should display a code if so ?

As mentioned a tech with a correct lap top theses days should see the fault .There supposed we are told on this forum plenty of suitable VP techs about in every marina ?

Could be a faulty sensor a critical sensor the ECU needs to see its input before allowing fuel or power to the injectors , but no msg on your screen so unlikely .

I guess a faulty fire suppression system might not register on the screen as it’s not a Volvo thing it’s an aftermarket add on interrupting a working stop solenoid .The ECU and thus screen may not realise it’s been molested thus your screens silent .

You have not said anything about the ER fire suppression system fitted .

Thank you for these suggestions.

1. My fire suppresion system is a large gas cylinder located in the engine compartment above the two engines. It is actuated by a bowden cable operated from the helm position. I do not think it has any electrical connections but I will need to check when I return. I imagine if it was faulty it should have stopped the starboard engine from running as well.

2. I swopped solenoids with the starboard engine and no issues were found - starboard engine started with all the port engine relays that could readily be swopped. Tried all diagnostic tree possibilities and no issues found.

3. I looked at them and they are not exposed to water and seemed OK.

4. I tried the emergency stop button and the Volvo Penta 2 1/2 inch display immediately told me the emergency stop button had been pressed. I had to remove all electrical power in order to reset the system. It then did not show any problems regarding the emergency stop system.

5. Throttle body indicates N and changes if moved to forward or reverse. Also tried throttle only position but still no luck.

Am I right in assuming some error codes and faults only show up on the Vodia system and not on the 2 1/2 inch engine/drive instrument?

 

[Doc Holiday]

Lack of fuel?

Fuel valve open?

Filters full and bled?

Fuel supply to the low pressure fuel pump is satisfactory and on cranking the fuel feed show 0.6 litre an hour the same as the operational starboard engine. Fuel filters all new and bled. The only fuel flow issue I have not checked is the fuel flow to the injectors as I could not see how to do that in the time available to me.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Do you have to be present for the VP guys to visit? I just give mine access to the keys and let them get on with it.

I would prefer to be around as the covers need to be removed from the boat and various other security related items turned off. None of these impact the engines though.

 

[Doc Holiday]

I know its a long shot but have you tried "The Fonzie" method?

Might work

I certainly felt like throwing a hissy fit when the Volvo Penta agent failed to keep his appointment having agreed to run a quick check 2 days earlier!

 

[Portofino]

Thank you for these suggestions.

1. My fire suppresion system is a large gas cylinder located in the engine compartment above the two engines. It is actuated by a bowden cable operated from the helm position. I do not think it has any electrical connections but I will need to check when I return. I imagine if it was faulty it should have stopped the starboard engine from running as well.

2. I swopped solenoids with the starboard engine and no issues were found - starboard engine started with all the port engine relays that could readily be swopped. Tried all diagnostic tree possibilities and no issues found.

3. I looked at them and they are not exposed to water and seemed OK.

4. I tried the emergency stop button and the Volvo Penta 2 1/2 inch display immediately told me the emergency stop button had been pressed. I had to remove all electrical power in order to reset the system. It then did not show any problems regarding the emergency stop system.

5. Throttle body indicates N and changes if moved to forward or reverse. Also tried throttle only position but still no luck.

Am I right in assuming some error codes and faults only show up on the Vodia system and not on the 2 1/2 inch engine/drive instrument?

Yes .Even though it feels like the screens tell you a lot the lap tops take it to the n th level .
Certainly with MAN pages and pages of live data , graphs , bar charts and numbers in boxes etc etc

I am thinking a sensor on the fly wheel that’s gone .ECU needs it input .
The lap top will show the voltage to the injectors , they are obviously not opening despite fuel pressure .
As you infer pity the screen does not throw a look usable code to point you in the right dir .

 

[Doc Holiday]

Yes .Even though it feels like the screens tell you a lot the lap tops take it to the n th level .
Certainly with MAN pages and pages of live data , graphs , bar charts and numbers in boxes etc etc

I am thinking a sensor on the fly wheel that’s gone .ECU needs it input .
The lap top will show the voltage to the injectors , they are obviously not opening despite fuel pressure .
As you infer pity the screen does not throw a look usable code to point you in the right dir .

OK thanks - as you say it would be nice if owners could at least an an idea of what could be wrong. Is there a sensor on the flywheel? If there is any idea where it is located? Stupidly I left all my manuals back in France. Looks like a wait until January 2022.

 

[vas]

most/all? el. controlled engines have a crankshaft sensor. Often fails in cars as well after 15yrs or 200k km. Small cheap piece in wifes FIAT was a 50euro spare in my BMW 150euro or there abouts. No idea where it might be in your engine, but could be a reason for not starting if there are no fuel issues.

 

[Doc Holiday]

I will try and discover where it is located but I would have thought the electronics system would have detected a lack of rotation and displayed a fault code.

 

[Portofino]

I will try and discover where it is located but I would have thought the electronics system would have detected a lack of rotation and displayed a fault code.

Sometimes they get a bit of crap on the end some metal fillings or what ever which obscures them .A clean up and off you go .
So it’s not not sending info ie unplugged or shorted to GND which may trigger a code it’d just not sending quite enough info for the ECU to trigger voltage to the electronic injectors .

Generically they are either located on the bell housing looking at the flywheel or alternatively nowadays with ever sophisticated motors stuffed with electrotwackery on the rocker box area looking at a cam shaft(s);, measuring that or there’s two one on the end of each cam shaft just before the timing wheels .
They are looking at the variable timing as well it it got that ?

But as said ECU needs to see a certain rotation speed before it turns the fuel on , ie triggers the injectors .

 

[Doc Holiday]

Sometimes they get a bit of crap on the end some metal fillings or what ever which obscures them .A clean up and off you go .
So it’s not not sending info ie unplugged or shorted to GND which may trigger a code it’d just not sending quite enough info for the ECU to trigger voltage to the electronic injectors .

Generically they are either located on the bell housing looking at the flywheel or alternatively nowadays with ever sophisticated motors stuffed with electrotwackery on the rocker box area looking at a cam shaft(s);, measuring that or there’s two one on the end of each cam shaft just before the timing wheels .
They are looking at the variable timing as well it it got that ?

But as said ECU needs to see a certain rotation speed before it turns the fuel on , ie triggers the injectors .

 

[Doc Holiday]

Many thanks for your helpful ideas and suggestions. The failure of a crankshaft sensor does sound to be a possibility. I am kicking myself for forgetting to pack the various maintenance and workshop manuals.

 

[Corona Mia]

Many thanks for your helpful ideas and suggestions. The failure of a crankshaft sensor does sound to be a possibility. I am kicking myself for forgetting to pack the various maintenance and workshop manuals.

We had a similar problem last year……..which turned out to be fuel contamination.
No idea where it came from!
Engines 2x D3 220 with around 150hrs. Fortunately both the high pressure fuel pumps were ‘serviceable’.
But the injectors couldn’t be saved and had to be replaced.……all 10 of them!?
I think they were Bosch parts……at around half the price of the ones in a VP box?
Oh…..and then we had to take the fuel tank out to clean out a sticky varnish like residue!?