"Port of entry" if brexit ever happens

[chubby]

I don't want to start a discussion on the pros and cons of Brexit and the current situation BUT what might be the situation if we are non EU and wish to enter EU waters for a short visit: will we actually need to clear in via the port of entry in France?

What is the situation for channel island boats which are non EU entering French waters?


I am not aware they are restricted in their movements, say from Guernsey to Brittany?


We are beginning to plan a summer cruise and assumed business as usual and / or a transition period for the coming season but was warned by another sailor about requiring to visit a "port of entry".

The French ports on the channel coast get a lot of custom from UK visitors and I cant believe they would want to loose that?

Also sometimes navigationally expedient to stop in a small port unlikely to have customs, like Ommonville or Port Blanc.

 

[Minchsailor]

At the moment it all 'unknown unknowns'. I suspect private yachts on a summer cruise is way down the priority list of the mega problems that have (will?, may?) to be sorted. If I was on the channel coast I think I would carry on planning as if everything will be OK.

I remember in the olden days we generally could sail the channel coast with minimum officialdom, and I suspect that the whatever the outcome of this whole dreary business, little will change.

 

[LadyInBed]

Won't it just revert to how it was before we joined the EC?
Though I'm damned if I can remember what that was, because I always crossed to either Cherbourg or St PP.

 

[oldharry]

Won't it just revert to how it was before we joined the EC?
Though I'm damned if I can remember what that was, because I always crossed to either Cherbourg or St PP.

Probably, but in those days there were not the pressures on UK Borderforce re drugs, illegal immigrants etc, so likely to be a lot tougher on both sides of the channel. French because they love beaurocracy, UK because risks high but no funding to cope with the extra demand.

 

[AndrewB]

Won't it just revert to how it was before we joined the EC?
Though I'm damned if I can remember what that was, because I always crossed to either Cherbourg or St PP.

It was necessary in theory to go to a port of entry on both sides. However, French customs officers regarded it as a total bore and did not make themselves easily available. Eventually we got given, I recall, a 'green card' for the yacht which gave us some sort of exemption from checking in in France. Anyway, the usual practice on arriving in France was to fly a yellow as you arrived and then taking it down the next morning.

On the British side they were more particular, with customs officers inspecting arrivals at each of the ports of entry. (Given many yachts were on booze runs, the level of alcoholism among the customs staff at ports like Dover and Ramsgate became lamentably high). Eventually this was replaced by a self-reporting system, possibly at the time when we entered the EEC, though you were still supposed to hang around for a while with a yellow flying in case they wanted to do a spot check.

With present-day sensitivities over immigration, I can't see such a lax system being reintroduced!

 

[johnalison]

It was necessary in theory to go to a port of entry on both sides. However, French customs officers regarded it as a total bore and did not make themselves easily available. Eventually we got given, I recall, a 'green card' for the yacht which gave us some sort of exemption from checking in in France. Anyway, the usual practice on arriving in France was to fly a yellow as you arrived and then taking it down the next morning.

On the British side they were more particular, with customs officers inspecting arrivals at each of the ports of entry. (Given many yachts were on booze runs, the level of alcoholism among the customs staff at ports like Dover and Ramsgate became lamentably high). Eventually this was replaced by a self-reporting system, possibly at the time when we entered the EEC, though you were still supposed to hang around for a while with a yellow flying in case they wanted to do a spot check.

With present-day sensitivities over immigration, I can't see such a lax system being reintroduced!

Our returns from Europe were usually either via Ramsgate or directly to our mooring in the Blackwater. At Ramsgate the customs officers would often turn up in the outer harbour and check in the yachts there. On the odd occasion I had to go round to their office and report, after which they'd come to the boat. In Essex we used to make a phone call on arrival and wait for the statutory two hours for them not to come. In retrospect, I can't remember how we made the phone call; we must have gone ashore and found a phone box. In any case, we didn't trouble with immigration unless they wanted to trouble us. From local accounts, we got the impression that customs/immigration got information on boat movements from somewhere, maybe local fishermen.

 

[jdc]

Why would it not be as it is now for arrivals from outside the EU? No list of permitted 'ports of entry', you fill up a C1331 and phone the yacht-line at Dover. I've done loads of trips outside the EU and never had any hassle at all. Of course that'll eventually have to go electronic, if only to cope with the numbers, but 'Ports of Entry' has never been mandatory for yachts.

 

[Sybarite]

On my first trip back to Northern Ireland after passing via the Republic I flew a yellow.

However the customs phoned the local boatman and asked him to ask me to take it down otherwise they would feel obliged to come and check me out.

 

[LadyInBed]

It's interesting that many remember the British bureaucracy but not what happened in France.
I don't think I flew a Q flag on arrival unless I had something to declare, I just checked in at the marina office with boat docs and passport.

 

[Boathook]

..... From local accounts, we got the impression that customs/immigration got information on boat movements from somewhere, maybe local fishermen.

Back in the 60's our local customs officer at Faversham used to ask us kids where the boats were heading and when returning. Just as well they cycled in though days, as it was hard work sorting out the duty free allowance .......

 

[Angele]

It's interesting that many remember the British bureaucracy but not what happened in France.
I don't think I flew a Q flag on arrival unless I had something to declare, I just checked in at the marina office with boat docs and passport.

Boats coming to France from the CI (which are outside the EU, of course) just arrive in whichever local port they choose, spend a few days there, then head home again. No paperwork. And I've never seen a douanier in any of the smaller ports (Dielette, Carteret, etc) checking pleasure craft. There would probably be someone in the passenger ferry terminal checking passports, but even that isn't a dead cert.

Of course, that is the situation at present. Boats coming from the CI just aren't numerous enough to justify upping the level of customs officials along the (lower) Normandy and north Brittany coats. Maybe things might be different going forward.....

 

[Topcat47]

Before we joined, I never found any Official in France at all interested in the comings and goings of leisure craft even ones as large as 75'. Returning, however, was a different kettle of fish and hanging around for up to 2 hours waiting for a customs officer to turn up (or not) was a right PITA. Mind you the one in Salcomb could be relied upon to rock up almost as soon as you'd dropped the pick.

 

[pagoda]

I can't help thinking much of this thread is over-reaction?
I sailed to Norway and back in 2014. No interest was shown at any point. In 2017 we sailed from Kiel to Lerwick via Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. The only place any interest was generated was in Lerwick, who wanted a form filled out for non-EC arrival. (Like we'd have bought alcohol in Scandinavia and tried to smuggle it!!)

 

[gertha]

If you arrive in UK from a non EU country you should declare to Borderforce with a phone call.

 

[Tillsbury]

I remember always flying Q arriving in the Channel Islands, and finding very helpful officials around with everything done in a gentlemanly fashion. Most of the time returning there was simply no-one around coming in to the Hamble so once we got bored we just went home.

 

[Topcat47]

If you arrive in UK from a non EU country you should declare to Borderforce with a phone call.

Hardly appropriate when the question refers to post Brexit. France, the Netherlands, Germany and Spain will still be in the EU......

 

[gertha]

Dear Mr. Topcat
What I should have said.
At the present time if you arrive in the UK you should notify Boderforce, this can be done with a phone call.
If you arrive from an EU country you are exempt from this requirement, this because we have an agreement with the EU regarding our collective borders.
Apologies for my short original message, and lack of detail.
I thought the post was someone trying to gain knowledge of possible changes to our Borders, and had thought my input was appropriate.
I now understand that my idea of what maybe of interest is not as you see it.
Yours
Simon

 

[Gwylan]

Well, in the flag bag there is still the old yellow duster.

As for the rest of it we shall dig out the crew manifest and keep a better paper log.

Coming back will be the challenge if the Border Force get given their head.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I used to travel between Croatia and the EU before Croatia joined the EU ... I imagine the same arrangement would be the default for post-Brexit UK and EU relationship, (assuming no CU or FoM.)

Yellow flag, head directly to port of entry and clear in through customs and immigration controls, basically the same as today for any yacht arriving from outside the EU. Make sure you know what your allowances are for booze for example ...

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/index_en.htm
https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control

Put a hard border between the UK and the EU and this is the default scenario - part of "taking back control" was to have control of our borders again. This would re-create "crimes" that currently don't exist like smuggling more than your quota of booze to/from the EU, or even your pet dog (Government advice is to allow 4 months to arrange pet travel in event of No Deal). As the intention is also to stop free movement of EU citizens then immigration status of everyone arriving from Europe would also need to be checked to enable monitoring of their length of stay in the UK and if they are allowed in. Allowing EU boats to just anchor up wherever they wanted without any customs or immigration checks would make a mockery of Brexit and border control. Yachts themselves are also high-value assets which would also need to be monitored to see if any import duty is payable - that means they need to check arrival/departure dates to ensure the 18 month temporary import period for yachts is not exceeded.

Here are the current government advice on travel to the EU after Brexit.

https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-brexit

Over time the rules may be relaxed if some kind of reciprocal aggreement can be reached but our current arrangement with the EU including FoM and CU means that there is not much point in checking pleasure boats other than for drugs/refugees.

If I were travelling between the UK and France post-Brexit, I'd just think "red diesel on steroids" ... there will be plenty of opportunity for French, Belgian, Dutch customs/immigration to make life a living hell for UK yachtsmen.

Here is the RYAs Q&A on Brexit ...

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/no-deal-Brexit-scenario.aspx

 

[chubby]

I can't help thinking much of this thread is over-reaction?
I sailed to Norway and back in 2014. No interest was shown at any point. In 2017 we sailed from Kiel to Lerwick via Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. The only place any interest was generated was in Lerwick, who wanted a form filled out for non-EC arrival. (Like we'd have bought alcohol in Scandinavia and tried to smuggle it!!)

I agree and don't expect any great changes, I only started the post because an organiser of a rally I hope to attend in the summer which would include France was worried about feeling that we needed to enter "ports of entry" and had not heard from the French HMs about rally booking.


Most border force activity is related to arms, immigrants and drugs and not in the least interested in bottles of wine!


If you are a well known south coast boat and advertise your movements with an AIS transponder they know exactly what you are up to as confirmed when once stopped by the UKBF!

A friend who did phone the yachtline in Dover on return from the CI was met with disinterest and asked why he had phoned!

I suspect nothing will change