Pontos multi speed winches

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doug748

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- had a very good review in July YM, from our interlocutor Snooks.

They look like the answer for large headsails, for those who don't want to go down the powered route. At over £1200 pounds a pop, sadly too expensive for an older boat though.

Anyone had any experience of them yet - or thinking about it?
 
Installing a pair as primaries is on my over winter jobs list. For us it is for gybing the assymetric kite shorthanded as they can pull through a rope faster than you can by hand, from what I have read so far most of the people who have them have installed them for this purpose and they all seem to be happy with them, but they should work very well for cruisers as well. The only downside I have seen mentioned is that they will require more carefull servicing - but if you service you winches every year I doubt it will be a problem.
 
I have a Pontos compact fitted on board my boat...but I'm guessing you want other people's views?

What size boat/winches do you have?

Price wise they are a little more expensive than a regular winch, but they are IIRC the same price or slightly cheaper than a two speed race version from Harken/Lewmar et al.

Here's a bit from the feature which I think got cut out:

The Grinder has found favour on the Class 40 race circuit. Sébastien Rogues, who pushes his equipment as hard as he pushes himself, had one Pontos Grinder onboard his winning boat GDF Suez on the 5,400 miles 2013 Transat Jacques Vabre from Le Havre (France) to Itajaí, (Brazil). When he took victory in the 1,000 mile double-handed 2014 Normandy Channel race he had two Pontos Grinders. By the time he started the 3,510 mile Route Du Rhum from St Malo (France) to Guadeloupe as favorite, he had replaced every winch on GDF Suez to Pontos.
 
I'm kind of waiting for the other manufacturers to wake up and get their version out which hopefully will drive the price down a bit.
Hard to justify for essentially a cruising boat right now but love the concept.
 
snooks said:
I have a Pontos compact fitted on board my boat...but I'm guessing you want other people's views?

What size boat/winches do you have?
Click to expand...


Not at all, I am very interested in your views.

I have a Contessa 32, so the genoa winches are either Lewmar 40s or 43 (the option, not sure which I have). I guess the compact would be a little small to replace these?

I have looked again at the prices and they are less than I supposed being given in Euros - the Trimmer 40 would be e1380 or c £970 in addition I have been contacted by the importer who informs me there will be a limited 10% discount for early adopters, so this puts the idea it in the tempting category.

http://pontos.fr/gb/winches/1-grinder.html

Which would you think to be the best choice, Compact, Trimmer or Grinder?
 
The compacts are the equivalent to size 45 power wise but have the SWL of 850kg which is the same size as a size 40. The compact is cheaper than the equivalent size 40 £680 vs £720 iirc.

I only have one and there's a big difference between that one and the Barient 28 (which is size 35) it's more winching at a lower gear, but it's less effort.

Servicing wise the only extra servicing (compared to standard winch) they need is a squirt of 3:1 or GT85 into the planetary gear
 
What do you want to achieve?

If you want a smaller winch with more power: compact
If you want the same power but the ability to tack without touching the sheet and blisteringly quick performance: grinder
If you want lots more power, and more, but effortless winding: trimmer
 
I hope this is not thread drift but concentrating the conversation...

I have a Harken 40 electric winch, mainly for the main halyard. I am simplifying and would like to replace with a manual. The standard 40 has enough grunt when used manually. I would though like to get it up as quickly as poss - not least to get through the lazy jacks ASAP (the only tricky part). Would a grinder 40 give me the same grunt as my current 40 or should I go for the trimmer?
 
This is how I explained it in the article:

The compact is clever because Pontos have dramatically reduced the size of a winch and increased its power. However it’s the Grinder and Trimmer really stand out in a market dominated by two speed winches. These have four gears used in two different ways, but both change gear by changing the direction of rotation of the winch handle. To understand what Pontos has done we need to cover the basics. Typically, in first gear of a standard two speed size 40 winch, a single 360° revolution of the winch handle recovers around 12cm (5in) of sheet with a power ratio of around 13:1 – so for every kilo of effort you put in at the handle you’ll get 13kg of effort at the barrel - second gear recovers around 4cm (1 1/2 inches) of sheet with a power ratio of 40:1. Let’s now take these two gears and call them third and fourth, third being the low gear, fourth being the higher.

The Pontos Grinder has two courser gears: first gear will recover 70cm (2ft 4in) of sheet with a power ratio 2.3:1 and second gear pulls in 20cm (8in) with an 8:1 power ratio. It then switches to nearer the traditional gearing for third and fourth gears: 11.6:1 (recovering 14cm, 5 1/2in) and 40:1. Think about that for a second, one revolution of the handle of a Harken or Lewmar size 40 nibbles in 12cm of sheet, the same single rotation on the Pontos Grinder devours 70cm, or almost 6 times as much! Albeit at a lower ratio when there is no load on the sheet.

The Pontos Trimmer commences with the conventional third and fourth gears, before moving up to the higher fifth (recovering 5cm with a 32:1 power ratio) and six gears (recovering 1.4cm 1/2in with a massive power ratio of 112.9:1). The Grinder goes through the gears numerically. The Trimmer, however, goes 3,4,6,5. The sixth gear brings in just 1.4cm, but rather than be stuck in a very high gear, the fifth gear (nicknamed the pump-gear) is slightly lower than fourth, but not a lot, allowing one to pump the handle in an anti-clockwise direction, to retrieve more line as your energy allows.

This might sound confusing, but as long as you start winding in a clockwise direction, then reverse the direction when you feel the need, there is little to go wrong. There are no buttons, levers or switches; anyone who has used a winch before will know what to do, anyone who hasn’t will pick it up in seconds. The step to or from the conventional two-speed winch gearing is automatic. When the load reaches a predetermined amount you'll hear a solid click, then you can then keep winching in the same direction or reverse direction.
=~=~=~=~=
So going back to your original question. The grinder has the same amount of power as a size 40, so you could get a size 40 grinder-or bigger if you wanted.
 
Cheers Graham - if it is as straightforward as it sounds, suspect were going to see yet.more boat sizes infkation. We have a moulded space so might have to stick to.a 40 grinder - and maybe some time upgrade the primaries with trimmers as the current 53s can be a bit of a puff with the bigger, 60m2 150% genny.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Is the bolt pattern (for mounting) the same as Lewmar, or will the pedestal need to be modified?
Click to expand...

Depends which winch you're talking about and the size you're after. The trimmer and grinder share the same bolt patten as either Lewmar or Harken (I forget which) Compact has a different bolt patten. But at the end of the day you can probably match up two holes, and drill out the others.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Is the bolt pattern (for mounting) the same as Lewmar, or will the pedestal need to be modified?
Click to expand...

I'm declaring an interest here, as I'm part of Pontos UK, the UK distributor for Pontos winches.

The hole pattern on Pontos 4 speed winches is the same as Harken Radial winches. As Graham says, if the existing hole pattern in the deck doesn't match the template for the new winch, then holes would need to be re-drilled. It is also possible to have adapter plates made up which utilise the existing hole pattern.

As there is so much variation from boat to boat, we normally recommend that professional advice should be sought before installation
 
GrahamD said:
As there is so much variation from boat to boat, we normally recommend that professional advice should be sought before installation
Click to expand...

I missed that bit and just used bigger penny washers than my existing winches had on them :0)
The spacing and BCD was different enough that no new holes were too close to existing holes...I did find out that there had been different winches on there before the ones I had so I was able to use two holes.

Still getting used to having different gearing on different sides of the boat :0)

Also the rope feed angle seems to be fine too, but I believe this is less critical than it is with the Grinder
 
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