Pontos 4-speed winches - anyone used one?

vyv_cox

vyv_cox

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We are very tempted by a pair of Pontos Trimmer winches. Jill has been unable to winch the genoa for some years and I struggle when the wind is up. The cost of these new ones is horrendous, £1000 each, but their description makes them sound very attractive. 9lb of force to sheet in 22 knots of wind with a 40+ square metre genoa sounds like a good recipe for keeping us sailing for some years yet.

Anyone have any feedback to offer?
 
They are attractive - I had a play with one on their stand at SIBS - but the fact is that a Winchrite is a lot cheaper and involves almost no effort at all. That's what I'm thinking of getting as our arthritis remedy.
 
Not used them in anger but had a go on their rig at the Southampton Boat Show. Very impressive! there was an elderly couple watching while I was talking to them and the lady also has serious problems with their current set up but couldn't believe how easy it was on the demo rig. Very expensive though
 
I already have a Winch Gearbox made in Camborne, which is effectively a 2-geared winch handle, and we find it to be very good. I don't think you can get them now.
I also cut down the Genoa from 130% to 110% in size when we bought the last one, for this very reason.

There is also the WinchBuddy which is a neat conversion of an 18v Makita 90 degree drill
 
I also had a close look at SIBS and tried them out. Very impressed and I'd be very temepted to buy them if upgrading winches or speccing a new boat. Time will tell, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are unforgiving if not maintained well (apolgies for the double negative!). ie. if a bit salt encrusted inside, the mech to change gears may not slide as intended.

There surely must be a chandlers with a demo so you can take a close look.

I have used a Winchrite extensively (which I like) but I would regard it as a tool to solve a different problem than a Pontos winch, as the force to hold the Winchrite is no different than winching, just there's less movement involved.
 
vyv_cox said:
We are very tempted by a pair of Pontos Trimmer winches. Jill has been unable to winch the genoa for some years and I struggle when the wind is up. The cost of these new ones is horrendous, £1000 each, but their description makes them sound very attractive. 9lb of force to sheet in 22 knots of wind with a 40+ square metre genoa sounds like a good recipe for keeping us sailing for some years yet.

Anyone have any feedback to offer?
Click to expand...

Hi Vyv,
Seems horrendous cost when two are needed for one Genoa.

How would the cost of one Lewmar 44 St electric winch compare/
Perhaps there is a kit to convert the ST 44's but that might be for more recent winches, don't know.
Mine date from 1999 on the Dufour, but the jib is not as big as some boats, the leech is just barely overlapped at the first crosstrees.
I'll have to do a bit more research into Lewmar before commenting again.
 
Cantata said:
They are attractive - I had a play with one on their stand at SIBS - but the fact is that a Winchrite is a lot cheaper and involves almost no effort at all. That's what I'm thinking of getting as our arthritis remedy.
Click to expand...
Not sure that little effort is correct but for me the Winchrite is too slow, and if the high speed is selected can take some holding, but I am also considering the Pontos winches, difficulty is which one the Trimmer or the Grinder?
Mike
 
paulclan said:
Hi Vyv,
Seems horrendous cost when two are needed for one Genoa.

How would the cost of one Lewmar 44 St electric winch compare/
Perhaps there is a kit to convert the ST 44's but that might be for more recent winches, don't know.
Mine date from 1999 on the Dufour, but the jib is not as big as some boats, the leech is just barely overlapped at the first crosstrees.
I'll have to do a bit more research into Lewmar before commenting again.
Click to expand...

Having some difficulty in finding a UK price for electric winches equivalent in size for what we have but it would appear that they are about twice the price of a Pontos. I am not keen to have electric ones anyway, for a variety of reasons (well publicised accidents, locating them on our boat, power consumption, running cables, etc.) so if anything it looks like a Pontos could be the better option.
 
noelex said:
There does not seem to be a lot of practical feedback on these yet, but there was some discussion here which may be useful if you are considering buying:


http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=165358&hl=prontos#entry4933946
Click to expand...

What a dreadful, opinionated crowd! About two slightly useful posts in the thread but not one that I found by someone who has actually used one. Vast majority telling anyone who will listen that these new winches will never work/are unreliable/spare parts not available/pointless. Most of them have not even bothered to find the difference between a Grinder and a Trimmer before putting fingers to keyboards to tell us how bad they are. Thanks to ybw.com!
 
As Doug has mentioned, I am one of the owners of Pontos UK, a company set up to distribute Pontos winches in this country. I must have met a lot of forum members during the Boat Show without knowing it. Perhaps next year everyone should wear a badge with their forum name, or possibly members prefer the "ships that pass in the night" nature of forum membership?

I hope that this does not break any forum rules, but to help with this discussion about the winches, I thought I'd offer a quick price comparison, based on Size 40 winches, and using the UK RRP as a benchmark.

The Pontos Size 40 Trimmer or Grinder's RRP is £1046.85. From a rough and ready search with Google, the UK RP for Harken Radial 40 appears to be £885, whilst the Lewmar Evo 40 is £866.
For electric winches, the Lewmar Evo 40 electric RRP is £2399, with the Harken Unipower Radial at £3033 (not sure of the size of this).

Of course this is not the whole story, there are a varying levels of discounts available through various outlets for these other products, which we are not able to match. So yes, Pontos winches are more expensive, but then none of the other winches have 4 gear ratios.

To answer Vyv's original query about user experience, we have a couple of testimonials from people who have been using the Trimmer in the "Testimonial" section of our website (under the "Our winches" tab) that may be helpful, including one from Maurice Owens, the 93 year old liveaboard who was featured in Yachting Monthly during the summer.
 
A friend fitted two electric winches for the genny to a 36 footer. I seem to remember that he said he got the winches at cost, circa £3500 each, nearly £1k for wiring etc, then all the work modifying the platforms on which they sit.

After all that, I have yet to see the sails up!
 
Woodlouse said:
What winches have you currently got and what is the cost of the next size up?
Click to expand...

The boat came, 30 years ago, with Lewmar 40s, not self tailing. After Jill fell onto one of the jib sheet cleats just as we were passing the Sandettie lightship in bouncy conditions, breaking a rib, we decided to switch to self tailers in order to remove the cleats. We went to one of the big Solent chandleries to buy them just as Lewmar bought Gibb out and closed them down. The chandler had two Gibb 50s at an extremely knock-down price, so we bought them. They have been excellent and are still in great condition. Winding them in has been beyond Jill's capabilities for some years and I cannot say it is getting any easier for me.

Lewmar 46 would be £800 each but since these are smaller than we have now there would be little point. Pontos Trimmer 40s would seem to be the perfect answer for us. And we should be able to sell the Gibbs to defray some of the cost.
 
I replaced one of my halyard winches with a Pontos 40 Grinder this spring.

Not the same as the Trimmer, but the principle is the same - 4 gears with automated shift.
The winch works fine - easy to use.
There is a distinct click from the winch when the gear changes from high speed to normal.
I have not serviced it yet but it seems straight forward.
http://pontos.fr//img/cms/Support/Manuels/NO-005 (Ind C) Maintenance Manual Grinder 40 GB.pdf

Manual for the Trimmer 40 here: http://pontos.fr//img/cms/Support/Manuels/NO-007 (Ind A) Maintenance Manual Trimmer 40 GB.pdf

I have been looking at Compact to replace the other halyard winch
http://pontos.fr//img/cms/Support/Manuels/NO-019 (Ind A) Manuel de maintenance COMPACT GBR.pdf
 
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