Plumb bow stupidity

[Refueler]

Back in those days boats were made from stout pieces of timber and didn't often have a bow roller pushing anchors over the bow. These days with wafer thin grp hulls its not quite the same. Not seen many oil tankers or commercial ships with straight bows. That racing waterline thing still seems to be popular in commercial ships

Many ships actually have straight bluff bows ... when loaded quite a few Bulk Carriers in fact have such ... just a semi circular bow straight down ....

 

[Mudisox]

In days of yore, the anchor was deployed and also secured on the shoulders of the bow not at the very tip.


Bit like the ships of today.

 

[Refueler]

In days of yore, the anchor was deployed and also secured on the shoulders of the bow not at the very tip.


Bit like the ships of today.

You should see some of the damage and marks to bulbous bows on ships !!

What I consider ugly ... where ships have what I term 'bug-eye' stalks sticking out from bow for anchors to stow against ... OK - its great for Officer on focsle to see anchor as it stows etc. but UGH !!

 

[Sumara of Weymouth]

I confess that I hadn't really considered the issue of the difficulty with raising the anchor. My worry about a plumb bow would be how the boat would react if it collided with a large log, a small growler or even a container. The sloping bow of my Vertue rides up onto small growlers rather than coming to a sudden jolt. Icebreakers tend to have sloping bows so that the ship can ride up onto the ice then break it rather than just smashing their way through.

 

[Daydream believer]

We are in the Caribbean. Probably the best cruising grounds in thr world. Constant wind, mainly on the beam, warm seas, pleasant temperatures all winter and a life at anchor. How much sailing do you do in the winter?

But I do not NEED to sail in the winter. I have a life other than sailing & I do things like Sailing club jobs, Machine projects in my workshop. Not to mention RC model flying. Working on club moorings etc. Rebuilt the club tractor last year. Just constant 50 week sailing would not be a life I would enjoy. Plus of course the jobs that the boat always needs to keep it in tip top shape. I expect many forumites have other things to catch up on & the winter gives them a chance to do just that.
As for being at anchor- you can keep it. Always having to ponce around with a dinghy to get ashore. Not to mention the sea sickness.
Neither is it all about boiling hot weather where one cannot breath for the heat.( dunno about the Carribean, have not been there either) My wife & I were sailing to the Med, but after 3 months of heat (& the French) she had enough. Got on a plane & flew home. I turned round & followed her. It was the start of some great single handed sailing. Albeit in much cooler climes. A month in the Dutch canals beat it hands down.
Part of the fun of sailing is planning for the sailing season when one is NOT sailing.

 

[geem]

But I do not NEED to sail in the winter. I have a life other than sailing & I do things like Sailing club jobs, Machine projects in my workshop. Not to mention RC model flying. Working on club moorings etc. Rebuilt the club tractor last year. Just constant 50 week sailing would not be a life I would enjoy. Plus of course the jobs that the boat always needs to keep it in tip top shape. I expect many forumites have other things to catch up on & the winter gives them a chance to do just that.
As for being at anchor- you can keep it. Always having to ponce around with a dinghy to get ashore. Not to mention the sea sickness.
Neither is it all about boiling hot weather where one cannot breath for the heat.( dunno about the Carribean, have not been there either) My wife & I were sailing to the Med, but after 3 months of heat (& the French) she had enough. Got on a plane & flew home. I turned round & followed her. It was the start of some great single handed sailing. Albeit in much cooler climes. A month in the Dutch canals beat it hands down.
Part of the fun of sailing is planning for the sailing season when one is NOT sailing.

Yes, we have all got it wrong out here in the Caribbean. Don't come

 

[Tranona]

I confess that I hadn't really considered the issue of the difficulty with raising the anchor. My worry about a plumb bow would be how the boat would react if it collided with a large log, a small growler or even a container. The sloping bow of my Vertue rides up onto small growlers rather than coming to a sudden jolt. Icebreakers tend to have sloping bows so that the ship can ride up onto the ice then break it rather than just smashing their way through.
View attachment 153993

How many times have you encountered a growler? None in the Caribbean where the incident of this thread occurred. Plumb bow is fine for the type of use the boats are designed for and are far stronger than the bow of your Vertue. Most have Kevlar in the layup of the bow sections.

 

[geem]

How many times have you encountered a growler? None in the Caribbean where the incident of this thread occurred. Plumb bow is fine for the type of use the boats are designed for and are far stronger than the bow of your Vertue. Most have Kevlar in the layup of the bow sections.

Kevlar doesn't stop dings in the bow. We see quite a few plumb bow boats with large stainless steel plates fixed around the bow due to the risk of anchor inflicted bow damage. These are often dented. Life over here is at anchor. You do it a lot. Damage on a plumb bow is inevitable

 

[Boathook]

What is it with all this anchoring lark? Surely one does not need an anchor in a moderm marina with finger berths.
Ok, I am told that some Med places are still in the dark ages, with stern too berthing & bow anchoring,
But best avoided in my view. Too hot for starters.

And miss nice peaceful anchorages watching the sun dip behind the horizon, dinghy ashore to a pub that in the evening is devoid of holiday makers.

 

[Kelpie]

But I do not NEED to sail in the winter. I have a life other than sailing & I do things like Sailing club jobs, Machine projects in my workshop. Not to mention RC model flying. Working on club moorings etc. Rebuilt the club tractor last year. Just constant 50 week sailing would not be a life I would enjoy. Plus of course the jobs that the boat always needs to keep it in tip top shape. I expect many forumites have other things to catch up on & the winter gives them a chance to do just that.
As for being at anchor- you can keep it. Always having to ponce around with a dinghy to get ashore. Not to mention the sea sickness.
Neither is it all about boiling hot weather where one cannot breath for the heat.( dunno about the Carribean, have not been there either) My wife & I were sailing to the Med, but after 3 months of heat (& the French) she had enough. Got on a plane & flew home. I turned round & followed her. It was the start of some great single handed sailing. Albeit in much cooler climes. A month in the Dutch canals beat it hands down.
Part of the fun of sailing is planning for the sailing season when one is NOT sailing.

If we all wanted the same things life would be a bit dull.
Anyway, I'm off for a swim round the boat. May see a turtle, there were a few hanging around yesterday.
Enjoy your winter.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes, we have all got it wrong out here in the Caribbean. Don't come

To each his own.
I have already turned down a crewing job on my old friends boat in this years ARC as I am not interested in the Caribbean.
I must admit I am slightly deterred by the poncy youtube videos on the subject so possibly unfairly influenced.

 

[Zing]

I just watched a Beneteau 41.1 charter boat lifting it anchor. The anchor came up upside down so the girl on the bow let it down again and is smacked into the hull. She powered the windlass up and it came up upside down again. She lowered it again and banged the hull hard for a second time. Who thought it was a good idea to have plumb bows? If you have an extended bow roller to place the anchor further forward the offerings from the production boat manufacturers are often pretty flimsy affairs.
We have a traditional raked bow with a massive bowroller. We often bring up the anchor and it's full of mud or sticky sand. We dangle the anchor at the surface and motor along at low revs to clean the anchor. How do you do this with a plumb bow?

Yes it’s dumb. You need a decent overhang of some sort. Even with a big overhang you can still bang the hull given an unfortunate wave at the wrong moment. I’ve seen a plumb bow boat witha big foam pad deplyed whilst anchoring. What a PITA to set up. I also don’t like those fold out overhanging anchor deployment mechanisms, they look so flimsy and I did hear of one bending.

 

[Tranona]

Kevlar doesn't stop dings in the bow. We see quite a few plumb bow boats with large stainless steel plates fixed around the bow due to the risk of anchor inflicted bow damage. These are often dented. Life over here is at anchor. You do it a lot. Damage on a plumb bow is inevitable

and certainl
So a few dings - and as you say many plumb bows have stainless steel plates on the vulnerable bits - I had one on my Bavaria. It really is no big deal and certainly does not justify "wafer thin hulls" type comments. Sad life if that is all you can find to make a big issue of. Pretty sure people buying or operating such boats are fully aware of the issue and take steps to minimise the inconvenience in return for the benefits of such hull shapes.

 

[geem]

and certainl
So a few dings - and as you say many plumb bows have stainless steel plates on the vulnerable bits - I had one on my Bavaria. It really is no big deal and certainly does not justify "wafer thin hulls" type comments. Sad life if that is all you can find to make a big issue of. Pretty sure people buying or operating such boats are fully aware of the issue and take steps to minimise the inconvenience in return for the benefits of such hull shapes.

Wafer thin hull was a comparison to the sturdy wooden ships of yesteryear. Just look at the rebuild of Tally Ho on Utube. By comparison our grp hulls are wafer thin. Don't take everything so personally. Who's making a big issue? I am out here enjoying the Caribbean sailing and racing scene, with kitesurfing and wingfoiling thrown in. What were those benefits of such a hull shape in a cruising boat again? I think I may of missed them

 

[Sumara of Weymouth]

How many times have you encountered a growler? None in the Caribbean where the incident of this thread occurred. Plumb bow is fine for the type of use the boats are designed for and are far stronger than the bow of your Vertue. Most have Kevlar in the layup of the bow sections.

I've encountered quite a few but only taken one glancing blow in Sumara. I didn't realise that the OP was in the Caribbean, but even there there could be a chance of hitting a semi-submerged container or hulk of timber. Although it would be very unlucky, the consequences could be serious. In the event of hitting a static dead weight, I am pretty sure my 6 inch thick laminated iroko stem post riding up onto the container would fair better than a plumb bow coming to a dead stop, whether it was Kevlar reinforced or not. That said, I think I will decline a challenge!

 

[boomerangben]

Each to their own of course, but I prefer the look of a spoon bow, elegant sheer line and a slight counter stern. Don’t care about ease of anchoring or waterline length.

 

[Tranona]

Wafer thin hull was a comparison to the sturdy wooden ships of yesteryear. Just look at the rebuild of Tally Ho on Utube. By comparison our grp hulls are wafer thin. Don't take everything so personally. Who's making a big issue? I am out here enjoying the Caribbean sailing and racing scene, with kitesurfing and wingfoiling thrown in. What were those benefits of such a hull shape in a cruising boat again? I think I may of missed them

Not taking it personally. Thin does not necessarily mean less strong and it really is irrelevant to a few dings on a solid bow. Carry on enjoying your life - suggest you just stop knocking other people and their boats. By your own admission the boat in question was a charter boat and for charterers on their 2 weeks in the sun the benefits are longer waterline for potential greater speed more room down below particularly in the forecabin. Their interests and requirements are very different from yours so they want a different kind of boat

Would be terrible if we all liked the same kind of thing - but of course if we all bought boats like yours you would no longer be able to be superior!

 

[The Q]

Of course you can have a plumb bow with a bowsprit, then you can hang the anchor from that for the purposes of lifting, once it's been pulled out of the mud.
And the bowsprit can be removed / folded back when, in a by the foot LOA marina.

 

[Tranona]

I've encountered quite a few but only taken one glancing blow in Sumara. I didn't realise that the OP was in the Caribbean, but even there there could be a chance of hitting a semi-submerged container or hulk of timber. Although it would be very unlucky, the consequences could be serious. In the event of hitting a static dead weight, I am pretty sure my 6 inch thick laminated iroko stem post riding up onto the container would fair better than a plumb bow coming to a dead stop, whether it was Kevlar reinforced or not. That said, I think I will decline a challenge!

Of course all these things are possible just so unlikely as to be irrelevant to the vast majority. You can always find reasons why one type of boat is superior to another and individual examples of the consequences but there has been no epidemic of boats hitting growlers, containers, logs etc and being smashed to pieces or sinking with all hands.

FWIIW I have a boat of similar shape to yours and equally heavily built - but the last thing that influenced my choice was the possibility that it might be better when I hit something.

As I suggested in my response to geem, these boats are bought for a different purpose and are designed to meet the expectations of the buyers and users. Totally irrelevant whether they are any good when confronted with "growlers"!

 

[geem]

Not taking it personally. Thin does not necessarily mean less strong and it really is irrelevant to a few dings on a solid bow. Carry on enjoying your life - suggest you just stop knocking other people and their boats. By your own admission the boat in question was a charter boat and for charterers on their 2 weeks in the sun the benefits are longer waterline for potential greater speed more room down below particularly in the forecabin. Their interests and requirements are very different from yours so they want a different kind of boat

Would be terrible if we all liked the same kind of thing - but of course if we all bought boats like yours you would no longer be able to be superior!

When did I knock other people? I made on observation on a fashion trend that copies the current crop of race boats. A thing that has gone on for decades. Remember to IOR inspired cruisers with fat beams and tiny transom. Following raceboat design in a cruiser is just fashion. Modern cruising boats designs are not out right fast. They can be if they used exotic materials like the race boats. Carbon hulls, carbon masts, and no internal accommodation to speak of. The reality is that plumb bows lone don't make a fast boat. They make a boat less easy to do a simple task of setting and retreaving an anchor. The charter companies didn't spec a boat totally suitable for charter sailors. They took what was off the shelf. Cheap and cheerful for a two week holiday.