Plough anchor: rubbish?

[oldbilbo]

I wouldn't disagree with 'BOB' above. We're all seeking 'Rolls-Royce' performance at 'Ford Fiesta' prices and a read of any of the recent threads on 'the best anchor' will show clearly that most of us want to square the circle of balancing performance vs cost. Certainly those of us who have long used the genuine CQR would not expect reliable performance from a 'knock off' copy, just as most of us have had disappointing results, not to mention scares, using cheap 'n cheerful copies of the genuine Danforth.

I would not be comfortable using a counterfeit 'plough' to hold MY Rival 41C, had I one to worry about, but I have some relevant experience of the smaller, lighter Rival 34 and a genuine 35lb CQR. I have set that - as have many others - using the techniques demonstrated to me by Services Yachtmaster/Examiners over 40 years ago, and relied on it many times. However, part of that apprenticeship was that no-one can measure the quality of an anchoring 'event' until afterwards. It was effective, or it wasn't..... That's why I keep an anchor watch when the wind pipes up, and so does every other deeply experienced skipper I know.

There are plenty of genuine used CQR anchors available at not much money, both on eBay and even here. That doesn't mean that they're NBG. It simply means there are better nowadays and folk are willing to pay for them.

I've recently bought a new and larger anchor, which I expect to outperform the 25lb genuine CQR that came with the MAB I now have. I will not be getting rid of the 25lb CQR, however, for I can make that work for me - and work well - as my No2 hook.

And do please remember - in coral, rock, lava boulders, and kelp - I've yet to see ANY of the modern 'burying' anchors, or even the old ones, outperform a modified 'big folding fisherman' like the Luke or Belfast type.

 

[PetiteFleur]

My plough 'CQR look -a like' also was pretty useless, with chain - whereas my kedge anchor, a Fortress Aluminium one is excellent. I've now upgraded to a new bower anchor - a Manson Supreme which digs in instantly and is also excellent.
In defence of the CQR, my first boat was a Vivacity 20 with a CQR and once I anchored at Burnham when it blew up to a F6 overnight and it was impossible to lift in the morning - had to haul it tight and wait for the tide to rise - the bow was just touching the water before it broke free!

 

[Neeves]

We have found that in order to set a 'genuine' CQR one needs to do so with a short scope, gently. Really the weight needs to be 'off' the shank - so ideally the quickest way to set would be with the shackle end of the shank just off the seabed, this then forces the toe of the fluke into the seabed, once the toe engages it will then set itself. The idea you can throw 50m of chain off the bow, reverse up at 4 knots, and retire to drink chiller beer (anyone who drinks chilled beer is daft anyway!) The amjor problem is, if the tide changes they might not re-set and then you will see the genuine dragging anchor (which is why our forebears might have set a physical anchor watch).

CQR's were great, technology has moved on - embrace new technology, but respect what led to where we are now. They work now as well as they did - we might have forgotten how to use them.

And modern convex anchors, last decade, work exceptionally well.

Jonathan

 

[KellysEye]

>Going 3-4 knots astern I think,

The way to get it to dig in is let the bows swing off and wait until until the boat straighens then very slowly put power on increasing it slowly. As it drags along the ground you will see/hear the chain bouncing up and down and eventually you will come to an abrupt stop. If it won't dig in then the sand is too soft or too hard so try moving to another spot, then another if that doesn't work. There are significant variations in the hardness of the sand in a bay, English Harbour in Antigua is an example. In Great Harbour Jost Van Dyke we had four tries to find the right sand, it just takes patience or local knowledge.

 

[vyv_cox]

>Going 3-4 knots astern I think,

The way to get it to dig in is let the bows swing off and wait until until the boat straighens then very slowly put power on increasing it slowly. As it drags along the ground you will see/hear the chain bouncing up and down and eventually you will come to an abrupt stop. If it won't dig in then the sand is too soft or too hard so try moving to another spot, then another if that doesn't work. There are significant variations in the hardness of the sand in a bay, English Harbour in Antigua is an example. In Great Harbour Jost Van Dyke we had four tries to find the right sand, it just takes patience or local knowledge.

This post hits the nail on the head perfectly. All those people who claim their CQR has never let them down, sets every time, does not drag, etc., etc., have to go through this rigmarole every time. They think this is normal and defend their anchor choice because they know no better. A decent anchor sets every time regardless of the bottom. I changed to a Delta from a CQR 20 years ago and found a dramatic improvement in the bottoms it would accept. With the Rocna the situation is better still.

 

[C08]

Often used to dry out at anchor and on inspection the CQR (25lb version genuine) was often just laid on its side. I probably was not as diligent in those days at setting it in properly but when I changed to a Delta 15kg without any change in anchoring technique , the Delta was always well dug in.

 

[noelex]

The CQR anchor seems to inspire a multitude of techniques to get it to set.

I think that is a message in itself.

The techniques don't seem to share much in common. ie use a short scope or a long scope. One common theme is to let the anchor "rest" before setting.

I have tried most of these techniques. I suspect most inspire confidence because after multiple tries to set a small patch of friendlier substrate is found and the technique used on this occasion acquires status beyond its real practical value.

Nevertheless they are worth a try, but if you want to be secure, get a modern anchor. Bang it sets. You can put the Ouija board and crystals away for good.

 

[RobBrown]

I echo thoughts on advantages of more modern designs. I had a CQR (copy) for the first 5 years of my boat ownership and persistent problems in getting it to set. Once in great , but oh, the tension! Switched to a relatively inexpensive Bugel, over the side, reverse, bang,set. EVERY TIME. Some may not wish to believe it, but it is so. There is no need anymore for the pussy footing it around and no innate virtue in having to do so!

 

[webcraft]

. . . if you want to be secure, get a modern anchor. Bang it sets. You can put the Ouija board and crystals away for good.

+1

If you value a good night's sleep get a Spade, Manson, Rocna, Cobra, Knox or similar.

If you like buggering around a lot, feeling traditional and lying awake worrying get a CQR.

- W

 

[Nicholas123]

If you consider them a mud anchor I doubt they can be beaten.If you use them on sand or gravel or rock then the fault is not with them it is with the person daft enough to expect great results in that situation.End of......

 

[sebastiannr]

If you consider them a mud anchor I doubt they can be beaten.If you use them on sand or gravel or rock then the fault is not with them it is with the person daft enough to expect great results in that situation.End of......

So not an anchor that you would recommend as a main anchor? I'm getting a new anchor. End of...

 

[oldbilbo]

So not an anchor that you would recommend as a main anchor? I'm getting a new anchor. End of...

I think everyone - apart from the fanatic few - would encourage one to have at least two anchors, with different characteristics and performance-strengths. Perhaps that's why Oyster prefer to fit a BIG aluminium Fortress as a No2 anchor....

 

[Iliade]

+1

If you value a good night's sleep get a Spade, Manson, Rocna, Cobra, Knox or similar.

If you like buggering around a lot, feeling traditional and lying awake worrying get a CQR.

- W

I feel perfectly safe hanging off my CQR... once I have let the tide run out, dug a hole, thrown the anchor in and backfilled. (Yes really!)

 

[sailaboutvic]

All chain (and lots of it, the chain was pulling along the sea bed). Going 3-4 knots astern I think, but that's a guess as I was too busy listening to my other half trying to shout "it's not digging in" through her snorkel.

My two penny's worth .

Firstly going back at 3-4 knots no wonder the anchor won't set , drop it lay the chain and slowly motor back until it start to dig in then slowly increase the rev until around 2000 rev , as the old saying ( if the anchor won't hold under engine it as no chance once the wind blows up ) .

And secondly ,CQR I give up years ago on CQR , mine worked well on the east coast but then what wouldn't hold in the thick east coast mud ? As a full time live aboard we anchor most to the time , My Dufour has a 16k Delta on 10mm chain and most of the time goes in first time unless it thick weed , once in it fine , what would I change it with ? Next size up Delta 20K or maybe a Rocna , it the price that put me off buying a Rocna .

www.bluewatersailor4.webs.com

 

[macd]

I'm glad to hear you pose that question - I was feeling quite lonely in my belief that plough anchors were a misguided design. We lived on board for seven years and spent almost all our nights at anchor with a Bruce in a variety of wind and sea conditions - as you might imagine - and wondered why folks complained so much about 'dragging their anchor'. The answer is of course that they are (almost) all using plough anchors ...that's why. Then it struck me that farmers invented ploughs to 'break' the ground - imagine how many horses they would have need to plough a field if they were towing a Bruce.

You're not alone in wondering why something modelled on a plough should dig in and stay dug in, and I've written as much several times on here. What's at least as mystifying is why, having adopted a pully-out shape, you'd then put a bloody hinge in it.

I'm not as big a fan of Bruces as you seem to be, but would certainly prefer one to one of those NVCQR things, whether forged steel or die-cast chocolate. Come to think of it, I'd get more use from the latter.

Agree, too, that motoring back at 3-4knots is a bit brisk. Whatever's on the end of the rode, tease it in, then give the motor some welly. Modern-generation hooks need far less teasing, but it's never going to harm.

 

[sebastiannr]

I think everyone - apart from the fanatic few - would encourage one to have at least two anchors, with different characteristics and performance-strengths. Perhaps that's why Oyster prefer to fit a BIG aluminium Fortress as a No2 anchor....

I have 4 anchors on board, 1 bruce (stern anchor),1 danforth (never use it but now I probably will) and 2 ploughs. Just for the record, I inspected the plough anchor and it is in fact a genuine CQR, so all those saying that the brand is important may well be mistaken.

Still, I like the reports about fortress and Rochna anchors, so will probably get one on them. I don't like the idea of farting around changing anchors unless I'm in a dangerous situation.

 

[oldbilbo]

You've got me worried now...! Is East Coast mud substantially better for this sort of thing than South Devon/Cornwall mud?

I've decided that, should I go wandering about places with a lot of rocky stuff - like Baltimore or Iona - then I'll take the BigF'Off Belfast 65lb folding thingy that Saint Ian Nicolson very cannily designed for just such places.

On an aside, I'm given to understand that there is a favoured haunt of boaties close by the Bridge Over The Atlantic at Seil Island. There's reputed to be a pub - of ill-repute? - there, and I can't help wonder why I see only pics of k'yakers, wayfarers, and cyclo-terrorists on't webby thing.

Could this be a VERY GOOD PLACE to anchor...?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Much of the Scottish West Coast is mud as well; being deeper anchorages and very old (stable, not shifting), the silt has had time to settle and fill in - thanks to all that glacial run off. The need for a fisherman's or the St I. N.'s is less so than one might think.

With regards to anchoring offshore the trousers place, yes it is a god a place but not a lot of room and a good flow of water passes through, you have to be right in the middle as there are local boats moored.

 

[maxi77]

Strange, why would other manufacturers, that can copy a very simple design, change the design to an inferior one?

Very simply cost and profit. Some copies are good some bad. At the end of the day most well known brands are jealous of their reputation and do not skimp, unbranded or unknown brands on the other hand have no good name to protect. Of course there are exceptions as ever.

 

[Neeves]

My two penny's worth .

Firstly going back at 3-4 knots no wonder the anchor won't set , drop it lay the chain and slowly motor back until it start to dig in then slowly increase the rev until around 2000 rev , as the old saying ( if the anchor won't hold under engine it as no chance once the wind blows up ) .

And secondly ,CQR I give up years ago on CQR , mine worked well on the east coast but then what wouldn't hold in the thick east coast mud ? As a full time live aboard we anchor most to the time , My Dufour has a 16k Delta on 10mm chain and most of the time goes in first time unless it thick weed , once in it fine , what would I change it with ? Next size up Delta 20K or maybe a Rocna , it the price that put me off buying a Rocna .

www.bluewatersailor4.webs.com

And it was only the price that put you off, people have short memories

Vyv posted this 2 weeks ago, not idea of the background

Glad to see your photo, John. I was told two days ago that there is a very large, very bent Rocna at Partheni and was hoping it was not yours.

Our arrangement is very similar and there has been an occasion when our float and line were only showing about a foot above the bottom. Our line is four feet long.

Jonathan