Plastimo roller furler hard to unfurl.

[fredrussell]

Hi all. Searched this and it has been discussed before so apols for relaunching it but...

I'm finding it very difficult to unfurl my genoa. Definitely no riding turns on drum, checked that first off. I think the problem is that the forestay seems, to my novice eye, to be a bit slack. A forum member was kind enough to lend my a loos gauge and I have tightened the shrouds on my fractional rig to the recommended 160 kg/ 15% of breaking strain. They feel good and tight. The forestay however still has some 'play' in it. What I mean by that is that if you hold the rolled genny at shoulder height you can move it fore and aft by about 4" to 6" . It doesn't feel nearly as tight as the shrouds. Is this normal? I would have thought the tension of shrouds and forestay should "equal out" roughly.

If the forestay is too loose somehow, would that cause it to bow inwards when the sheet is pulled to unfurl genoa? That is what seems to be occurring. Rather than the pull on sheet making the sail unroll, the forestay seems to be bowing (if thats the word?) as you pull on the sheet. When you look up the foils, with sail out, there seems to be the odd kink in one or two of the joins, rather than them being arrow straight - I'm wondering if this has been caused by the aforementioned bowing of forestay as sheet is pulled.

If I haul on the backstay hard, the situation improves a bit, but still not to the point where the genoa unfurls easily.
The genoa halyard is cleated off on mast on a horned cleat - would it be better to have the halyard winch & clutch tight?
When I can't unfurl it, if I go forward and unfurl it by hand it turns freely - no resistance at all.
For what its worth, once out genoa furls absolutely fine.

Any tips, as always, gratefully received!

 

[Yngmar]

Did you do all of this with the genoa down, or at least the halyard slackened? Otherwise it'll be the genoa halyard and luff tape you've been putting a murderous strain on instead of the forestay.

I'm further assuming you have no other forestays, like a cutter, inner or babystay. Otherwise you might obviously pulling against them, especially an inner forestay that would be attached to the mast quite close to the furler.

Assuming you knew the obvious, let's proceed.

On a fractional rig with backstay tensioner, it's perfectly fine for the forestay with a furled sail on to swing around a fair bit, but 4-6" (10-15cm) seems a bit much. Mine perhaps swings about 5cm at shoulder height. With the backstay done up to the max 20% of BL (of my 7/8 Selden rig), much less so.

Did you sight up the mast luff groove to see if the shape corresponds with the expected? With the backstay loose the mast should be fairly straight to slightly curved, with it tensioned it should have a even curve aft. If the curve is not even (i.e. mast has a sharpish bend where the forestay attaches), the inner/diamond shrouds need adjusting too.

Oh, and you probably already checked this, but with the sail off and the backstay on hard, can you turn the furling drum easily by hand (remove the furling line if it's interfering too). It may well be that the bearings just need some lubricant (furlers want the occasional servicing). It may also be that something in the foil has broken (my Furlex has a simple plastic bearings inside the foil that turn on the stay), or worse, the foil is catching on broken wire strands inside and your forestay is about to go. With the sail down, also inspect the top swivel and make sure that turns easily too.

 

[fredrussell]

Thanks for the reply Yngmar, your questions answered:

Did you do all of this with the genoa down, or at least the halyard slackened? Otherwise it'll be the genoa halyard and luff tape you've been putting a murderous strain on instead of the forestay.

Yep, Genoa halyard slackened before adjustments made.

I'm further assuming you have no other forestays, like a cutter, inner or babystay.

No other forestays.

On a fractional rig with backstay tensioner, it's perfectly fine for the forestay with a furled sail on to swing around a fair bit, but 4-6" (10-15cm) seems a bit much. Mine perhaps swings about 5cm at shoulder height. With the backstay done up to the max 20% of BL (of my 7/8 Selden rig), much less so.

It might not be as much as 10-15cm now. I've just been on boat and I tightened caps to 20% of breaking strain. Lowers to 15% - any more than that and mast centre curved aft slightly. This has obviously firmed up the forestay a bit, at shoulder height I would say forestay moves from centre to perhaps 6cm off centre line when waggled with some intent.

Did you sight up the mast luff groove to see if the shape corresponds with the expected? With the backstay loose the mast should be fairly straight to slightly curved, with it tensioned it should have a even curve aft. If the curve is not even (i.e. mast has a sharpish bend where the forestay attaches), the inner/diamond shrouds need adjusting too.

Mast straight sighting up luff groove. With backstay tensioned the curve aft is more pronounced above where forestay attaches.

Oh, and you probably already checked this, but with the sail off and the backstay on hard, can you turn the furling drum easily by hand...With the sail down, also inspect the top swivel and make sure that turns easily too.

Yep, furling drum turns easily by hand with sail off. Will inspect top swivel later in week, was pushed for time today. Here's a pic I took today sighting up foil. Due to perspective of shot it looks like the bend in foil is near top - its actually at about the halfway point. Its not too easy to make out, but bend is at the point where two foil sections meet, where two screws are visible:

 

[Yngmar]

Yep, furling drum turns easily by hand with sail off. Will inspect top swivel later in week, was pushed for time today. Here's a pic I took today sighting up foil. Due to perspective of shot it looks like the bend in foil is near top - its actually at about the halfway point. Its not too easy to make out, but bend is at the point where two foil sections meet, where two screws are visible:

Ah, a picture says more than a thousand words. That kink doesn't look right. So drum and foil turn easily with the sail removed, but go hard with the sail on? In combination with the kink where the foils are joined, that looks like the sleeve that connects the foil sections, whose inner surface is bearing on the forestay is probably cracked or broken. When loaded with the weight of the sail, the broken bearing surface is not running smoothly on the forestay anymore. I'd show it to a rigger to confirm, and soon. The good news is, it's just a small aluminium extrusion (at least on my Furlex, I assume Plastimo mostly copied that). The bad news is, you'll have to drop the forestay (but not the mast) and extract it from the foil, then disassemble the kinked foil section to replace the sleeve, or in the worst case the section. I would be careful and only furl the sail with as little load as possible (head to wind) until then.

The cause may well be the previously undertensioned rig and slack forestay. The tension you now have sounds about right.

Here's a photo of a foil extrusion joint (from http://www.wavetrain.net/the-lunacy-report/245-headsail-furler-install-selden-furlex-300s):

 

[Yngmar]

Just thought to add, you can confirm that this is where the problem is by having the sail on, then turning the drum to furl it up by hand and when it starts going hard, look up the front of the foil - if it twists up to the kink, that's where the problem is.

 

[fredrussell]

Ah, that makes sense Yngmar. I'll try that test^^^ next time I'm on boat, tuesday I reckon. I assume I'll need to remove forestay and furler to replace bent sections? - I have a bosun's chair I can borrow if so.

After I tightened shrouds today it still was a pain to unfurl unless backstay was tensioned. If you walk to bow and unfurl by hand it unfurls nicely - all very mystifying really. Until I borrowed the Loos gauge I was only running max 5% of breaking strain on shrouds - I wonder if this and the resultant saggy forestay allowed foils to bend when I hauled on genoa sheet. Lesson learnt there if so.

 

[fredrussell]

Just had a thought - if I remove genoa and get a line up to where bend is it worth trying to straighten the bend by pulling the line perpendicular to the bend? Shameful bodge I know but given that I probably need new foil sections anyway might it be worth a try?

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Plastimo have a sealed bearing race ( older ones not so well sealed ) .
Drop the sail and try the halyard swivel with a bit of strain on one side .
If it feels rough or sounds like it's grinding you need a new bearing in the swivel.
Also check aloft if the halyard is too close to the black doughnut and gets picked up and turned around the forestay, that's when you get a tight furl?
Also happens if sail is to short and the extended halyard wraps the foil lower down.