Planning for next year!

[johnalison]

Thanks to everyone, it's coming together! Next summer looks like being fun.

Since I won't get the chance to go myself, I have been quite enjoying having a virtual cruise on your behalf.

Entering stern first is not often done in boxes, but possible. The only person I have cruised with who did this regularly had a bow-thruster. (This was Aquilegia, recently departed from Titchmarsh, that you may have seen). With a smaller boat, it is not uncommon to park the boat across the boxes and just shuffle the boat round into the berth. I have even seen people moor across the boxes and go ashore over the incumbent berths, when the harbour was full, but this requires a Continental level of sang-froid.

 

[sailorman]

Since I won't get the chance to go myself, I have been quite enjoying having a virtual cruise on your behalf.

Entering stern first is not often done in boxes, but possible. The only person I have cruised with who did this regularly had a bow-thruster. (This was Aquilegia, recently departed from Titchmarsh, that you may have seen). With a smaller boat, it is not uncommon to park the boat across the boxes and just shuffle the boat round into the berth. I have even seen people moor across the boxes and go ashore over the incumbent berths, when the harbour was full, but this requires a Continental level of sang-froid.

we had to moor like this in Alkmaar as we were too wide for the box`s there

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Since I won't get the chance to go myself, I have been quite enjoying having a virtual cruise on your behalf.

Entering stern first is not often done in boxes, but possible. The only person I have cruised with who did this regularly had a bow-thruster. (This was Aquilegia, recently departed from Titchmarsh, that you may have seen). With a smaller boat, it is not uncommon to park the boat across the boxes and just shuffle the boat round into the berth. I have even seen people moor across the boxes and go ashore over the incumbent berths, when the harbour was full, but this requires a Continental level of sang-froid.

Yes, I've seen Aquilegia around at Titchmarsh. We're on F pontoon, so not far from her.

As always, slow and careful will be our aim until we gain confidence!

 

[johnalison]

Yes, I've seen Aquilegia around at Titchmarsh. We're on F pontoon, so not far from her.

As always, slow and careful will be our aim until we gain confidence!

F is posh. We are on the Saga pontoon H.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Next Question!

At present, we don't have a holding tank. Obviously this is a necessity when on the canals of Holland, and I am planning to fit one. However, there are choices with a big difference in cost! First, I could simply install one of the wrap-round tanks made by RM69 that fit the Plastimo toilet (like THIS). That's relatively inexpensive (about £250), will provide capacity for 2-3 days for 4 people, and is (reasonably) simple to fit. Second would be to go the whole hog and fit a larger tank - the obvious place is under the saloon berth, where the toilet sea-cocks live. That would be a job for a boatyard, and the tank itself would be at least twice the simple DIY one, so we're looking at a substantial increase in cost.

Now, the major drawback of the RM69 tank (besides its small capacity) is that it doesn't have a pump-out facility; the idea is that you use the toilet pump to discharge it into the sea. You can fit one, but it isn't obvious how the piping could run from the heads compartment - possible, but not necessarily easy. Further, if fitted in that location the pump-out connection would be quite close to the diesel filler, with obvious potential for a bad mix-up! A professionally fitted tank under the saloon berth would have its pump-out connection near the chain plates, well away from the diesel filler, and also there is a channel in the interior woodwork from the location of the tank to the deck adjacent to the chain plates.

So, we have three options from cheapest and least capable to dearest and most capable:
1) RM69 tank without pump-out
2) RM69 with pump-out
3)The full works

Now the question I have is, can you discharge black water in the Markermeer and IJsselmeer? It isn't obvious from the guide I have bought. If not, that eliminates option 1 immediately - the only means of emptying the tank in option 1 is by discharge into the sea. 2 and 3 are functionally equivalent, but 3 allows a much longer period between pump-outs. The advantage of 2 is that all the valves etc. are conveniently located next to the toilet; the disadvantage of 3 is that changeover valves may not be so conveniently located. RM69 do provide solutions with larger tanks that use the same valve arrangement; possibly one of these might fit in the space available.

 

[sailorman]

Next Question!

At present, we don't have a holding tank. Obviously this is a necessity when on the canals of Holland, and I am planning to fit one. However, there are choices with a big difference in cost! First, I could simply install one of the wrap-round tanks made by RM69 that fit the Plastimo toilet (like THIS). That's relatively inexpensive (about £250), will provide capacity for 2-3 days for 4 people, and is (reasonably) simple to fit. Second would be to go the whole hog and fit a larger tank - the obvious place is under the saloon berth, where the toilet sea-cocks live. That would be a job for a boatyard, and the tank itself would be at least twice the simple DIY one, so we're looking at a substantial increase in cost.

Now, the major drawback of the RM69 tank (besides its small capacity) is that it doesn't have a pump-out facility; the idea is that you use the toilet pump to discharge it into the sea. You can fit one, but it isn't obvious how the piping could run from the heads compartment - possible, but not necessarily easy. Further, if fitted in that location the pump-out connection would be quite close to the diesel filler, with obvious potential for a bad mix-up! A professionally fitted tank under the saloon berth would have its pump-out connection near the chain plates, well away from the diesel filler, and also there is a channel in the interior woodwork from the location of the tank to the deck adjacent to the chain plates.

So, we have three options from cheapest and least capable to dearest and most capable:
1) RM69 tank without pump-out
2) RM69 with pump-out
3)The full works

Now the question I have is, can you discharge black water in the Markermeer and IJsselmeer? It isn't obvious from the guide I have bought. If not, that eliminates option 1 immediately - the only means of emptying the tank in option 1 is by discharge into the sea. 2 and 3 are functionally equivalent, but 3 allows a much longer period between pump-outs. The advantage of 2 is that all the valves etc. are conveniently located next to the toilet; the disadvantage of 3 is that changeover valves may not be so conveniently located. RM69 do provide solutions with larger tanks that use the same valve arrangement; possibly one of these might fit in the space available.

Holding tank is not a requirement

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Holding tank is not a requirement

No, but clearly a convenience in all senses of the word! I over-stated its importance by using the word "necessity". My daughter has bowel problems that could require her to "go" urgently, so relying on shore-side facilities isn't always going to work.

 

[sailorman]

No, but clearly a convenience in all senses of the word!

I have never found any issues in not having one ( or No 2s) the Dutch do seem to have shore facilities even if have a portaloo on isolated islands

 

[ex-Gladys]

Cheapest solution is a porta potti!

 

[johnalison]

I have never found any issues in not having one ( or No 2s) the Dutch do seem to have shore facilities even if have a portaloo on isolated islands

Certainly, shore facilities are the way to go, so to speak, but I don't think AP should be overly concerned if his daughter can't hold it in. The Dutch have been happily ignoring protocol for a century or two and one more deposit is not going to harm anyone. I wouldn't put myself out to fit a holding tank just for this possibility.

 

[Dan Tribe]

Next Question!

At present, we don't have a holding tank. Obviously this is a necessity when on the canals of Holland, and I am planning to fit one. However, there are choices with a big difference in cost! First, I could simply install one of the wrap-round tanks made by RM69 that fit the Plastimo toilet (like THIS). That's relatively inexpensive (about £250), will provide capacity for 2-3 days for 4 people, and is (reasonably) simple to fit. Second would be to go the whole hog and fit a larger tank - the obvious place is under the saloon berth, where the toilet sea-cocks live. That would be a job for a boatyard, and the tank itself would be at least twice the simple DIY one, so we're looking at a substantial increase in cost.

Now, the major drawback of the RM69 tank (besides its small capacity) is that it doesn't have a pump-out facility; the idea is that you use the toilet pump to discharge it into the sea. You can fit one, but it isn't obvious how the piping could run from the heads compartment - possible, but not necessarily easy. Further, if fitted in that location the pump-out connection would be quite close to the diesel filler, with obvious potential for a bad mix-up! A professionally fitted tank under the saloon berth would have its pump-out connection near the chain plates, well away from the diesel filler, and also there is a channel in the interior woodwork from the location of the tank to the deck adjacent to the chain plates.

So, we have three options from cheapest and least capable to dearest and most capable:
1) RM69 tank without pump-out
2) RM69 with pump-out
3)The full works

Now the question I have is, can you discharge black water in the Markermeer and IJsselmeer? It isn't obvious from the guide I have bought. If not, that eliminates option 1 immediately - the only means of emptying the tank in option 1 is by discharge into the sea. 2 and 3 are functionally equivalent, but 3 allows a much longer period between pump-outs. The advantage of 2 is that all the valves etc. are conveniently located next to the toilet; the disadvantage of 3 is that changeover valves may not be so conveniently located. RM69 do provide solutions with larger tanks that use the same valve arrangement; possibly one of these might fit in the space available.

We managed with a Porta Potti for two visits before we fitted a holding tank. We only used it for poo, pee went in the Lavac. It's do-able but a tank is more convenient. Pumping into the Markermeer / Iselmeer seems a bit anti social but I reckon many of the locals do so. Perhaps if you did it well offshore and underway it's less objectionable, but not nice near swimming areas. [A swimming area in Holland is anywhere there is water]
Some of the pump out stations we tried to use were out of action or badly maintained so I wonder if the locals are as punctilious as we would like to believe.
Have a look at Tek Tanks, they do a range of off the shelf tanks which may fit or can make a bespoke one.

 

[sailorman]

We managed with a Porta Potti for two visits before we fitted a holding tank. We only used it for poo, pee went in the Lavac. It's do-able but a tank is more convenient. Pumping into the Markermeer / Iselmeer seems a bit anti social but I reckon many of the locals do so. Perhaps if you did it well offshore and underway it's less objectionable, but not nice near swimming areas. [A swimming area in Holland is anywhere there is water]
Some of the pump out stations we tried to use were out of action or badly maintained so I wonder if the locals are as punctilious as we would like to believe.
Have a look at Tek Tanks, they do a range of off the shelf tanks which may fit or can make a bespoke one.

We werer told by a local that the Ijselmeer is "too clean" to the detriment of livestock that inhabit it

 

[PeterWright]

Hi A P,

A Dutchman once told me that you have to be caught in the act of discharging black waste to be fined for the offence, so risk ofnprosecution is hardly an incentive to fit a holding tank. However the Dutch inland waterways are a pretty delicate ecosystem, struggling with managing the run off from agriculture so I prefer to abide by the spirit of the law to help them with this issue. Holland is also fairly well equipped with pump out faciliies in their marinas, so a deck pump out is of more use than a sea discharge - you're hardly likely to go 3 miles off shore to discharge in the middle of a cruise in the inland seas.

In view of these facts, the RM69 wraparound option sounds prety good to me - just sorry I hadn't heard of it before we installed a Tek - tanks one a few years ago. Obviously, you would need to learn how it can be emptied at a pump out station and install it appropriately, with clear distiction between the diesel filler and the pump out connection, but that doesn't sound impossible to me.

Peter.

 

[ditchcrawler]

On my M31 we have used a small Porta Potti in the heads but I have to empty it.

However a Dutch acquaintance told me they use a product call Flex Toilet. It is like a large nappy with gel in it that goes over and into your existing toilet.
You do your stuff and fold it up and dispose of it in the rubbish. Chandlers sell them in packs. He did admit that a lot of them actually carry these things so that if they are stopped or inspected they say this is what they use, whilst doing something else. A cunning lot like Baldrick.

 

[nortada]

+1 for the northern route via Ijmuiden which gives you the opportunity to enjoy the fleshpots of Amsterdam (The Rijks Museum is not to be missed) and thereafter gives direct access to the wider waters of the Marker Meer and Ijssell Meer where you will be mostly under sail whereas further South it seems to me as much motoring as sailing. Hoorn and Medemblik are both charming and in between is the even more charmi g town of Enkhuizen with its fascinating Zuiderseee Museum and a thriving arts scene. Forego the marina and go into the old harbour so you can moor up almost in the town centre. The railway station (a terminus) is just across the road with a direct service to Amsterdam Central whch in turn has a direct service to Schiphol airport, so crew changes are almost as easy here as in Amsterdam itself. If you actually want to leave the boat for more than a day or two, the marina ( not much further from the station) might be a better bet and cheaper than Amsterdam.. You could easily consider leaving the boat in these waters all season.

Peter.

If you consider relocating to the EU more permanently you may wish to consider the Brexit/VAT implications.

Tons about it on Liveaboard Link.

 

[Neil_Y]

Had not thought about the possibility of weed! I have a folding propeller, but no cutter on it. Is the folding prop likely to be sufficient to avoid entanglement, or shoudl I consider a simple disc cutter?

Folding props can catch rubbish and then stop folding, mine worked with some rubbish round it, it folded as I went from ahead to astern and then refused to unfold when I wanted some astern to stop....ended up squashing the marina launch

 

[johnalison]

Folding props can catch rubbish and then stop folding, mine worked with some rubbish round it, it folded as I went from ahead to astern and then refused to unfold when I wanted some astern to stop....ended up squashing the marina launch

Folding props are for the most part brilliant and mine has give no trouble for twenty years.

However, it is not the prop which is the problem in the Markermeer. We were happily sailing past the Marken lighthouse two or three years ago when the smaller boats that we had just passed began overtaking us. Being overtaken is not acceptable to us, especially by foreigners, so I contrived to sail the boat backwards a couple of times and we were able to move ahead again.

 

[sailorman]

I think there a lot if people planing a big OFF nxt yesr ??

Relearn howto walk b4 anythingelse

 

[Daydream believer]

Re then box mooring. I did a page in our web site www.stonemoorings.com for our members prior to our Dutch cruise on box moorings
Unfortunately covid scotched the plans
However, the article may be of interest & the link of how I did it single handed is in the page
Box mooring

I did an article for PBO on a simple gadget for hooking a line to the inset bollards made from 15mm plastic pipe & an extendable paint roller handle. The grooves in the Osma pipe were made with a fine saw & dremel & tidied up with the sanding attachment.
here are the photos from the article to give one the idea. So far I have used it in the lock at Flushing when SH & it worked well. it is cheap & easy to make & would do for a months holiday in the canals and is nice & light. Can also be used to reach down onto pontoon cleats if one is not so good at lassooing

 

[Daydream believer]

I went to Ijmuiden before the windfarms got properly established. i went Single handed from Bradwell. It took 26 hours & i was sea sick just past the Shipwash until nearly at the end. I was pretty incapable in the shipping lanes & as I sailed through the large roundabout at night I recall looking up & seeing lights everywhere around me. i collapsed back down & just sailed through the middle, incapable of any proper action. Totally irresponsible & I have no idea how I got away with it. I just kept chucking up.
Towards the end there was a large Dutch naval vessel at anchor . As I neared it, it let off a green flare that burned for a long while from the stbd bridge deck. I have no idea what it meant. At the same time a Rib left it & went 2-300 yds out from the bow & back. I just carried on across its bow. There was no radio call on VHF 16.
As i entered the port the pilot warns about watching vessels coming from behind & sure enough I had a blast from a ship that I had not seen. I was more than glad to get tied up & rest for several days to recover in time for the bad weather to pass through