PLAN B

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Maybe I need to consider this further /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Now my head hurts and I haven't been drinking.

The thing I keep coming back to (and a significant part of my motivation) is if I can't sell Flipper then the only option is to refit her as sitting in the yard waiting a buyer to arrive costs £17.50 a week (£910 per year)? How do you dispose of a fiberglass hull? Chainsaw and skip - then what?

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STOP THAT! Negativity is verboten! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Visualise yourself sailing along in your trusty vessel, knowing that she is solid beneath you.
Breath out. And..... Relaax /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

You will need your rose tinted spectacles. You can borrow mine once I'm in the water! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Paul
 
Err ...

What about those people who buy brand new boats and still have to spend much time fixing them so they work properly?
(mentioning no names /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

Let alone those people who buy a 'perfect' secondhand boat only to find loads of things (or one major thing) needs fixing?

If Peter dumps Flipper and goes out to buy a replacement, who's to say he won't have loads of work to do on the replacement?

If he's planning the Jester, presumably he will have to do plenty to make whatever boat it is fit for the trip. So if he has the heart and the energy and the cash to do up Flipper, that's up to him, ain't it?
 
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Err ...

What about those people who buy brand new boats and still have to spend much time fixing them so they work properly?
(mentioning no names /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

Let alone those people who buy a 'perfect' secondhand boat only to find loads of things (or one major thing) needs fixing?

If Peter dumps Flipper and goes out to buy a replacement, who's to say he won't have loads of work to do on the replacement?

If he's planning the Jester, presumably he will have to do plenty to make whatever boat it is fit for the trip. So if he has the heart and the energy and the cash to do up Flipper, that's up to him, ain't it?

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My point precisely. I fix the boat to keep sailing. Note that I did (and continue to do) all my boatfixing on the roll, so I can get 1000-1500 miles in. It just proves that buying a new boat does not get you out of evil boatfixing, just reduces it a bit if you are lucky. And now my boat is 4 years old, stuff is wearing out now anyway.

Besides, ripping out the interior and starting again completely has been wildly underesimated as a task, which is what I sent Peter last night.

Further, I am not saying he should not do this, I am the balancing voice in this thread which urges him to think it through very carefully,or it may look like the Plucky Brit sets out ill prepared on a mission, and finds it takes Years & £££s more than originally envisaged if he meets success at all.

Its all very well cheering from the sidelines, but the support we give will only be a miniscule percentage of the effort required to achieve a decent result.

Ask yourself: Do I like DIY, and am I good at it? Not really? If you haven't had a long and illustriious history of major projects like house restoration, car restoration, kit cars, classic bikes or wooden boats by the time you are in your 40s, then you will likely get bored if you start now.
Consider that Peter has owned this boat 6 years, and got this far, mainly ( I believe) without much support from the family. Imagine he is now contemplating probably 5 or 6 times the effort compressed into the next 12 months. Sums are difficult to add up.

So, I am not being negative or derogatory, and there really is nothing personal in it.
 
If you have the space at home, take the boat home. I can not stress how much easier this will make the job. As you mention it takes an hour each way travelling, that is effectively 2 hours wasted everytime to you work on her.

If you bring her home, then you can work on her at every spare moment you care to, and if that means an hour in an evening after work, you can slap on some paint, or finish a bit of lay up.

Even if you can't get a trailer, Peter Downs has a self loading triuck which can pick you and drop you off without the crane costs. I would expect this to be less that the £900 storage costs, so even if you don't get a trailer, bringing her home is still economical.

I have brought 2 boats home, and never regreted doing it with either. My father took 4 boats home (much to Mums despair) and for a serious self-restoration job, it has got to be the best choice, IMHO> /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I think I am a 1.5 type. I do refits, big ones, I am always finding extra jobs to do. (I spent Wed night on board, doing some painting and fitting shelves) but I still seem to turn in a reasonable number of miles. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But is it true, I don't get seasick.
 
I hope you don't mind me butting in, i've not met you but I have watched the story unfold. There is a big difference between hull weight and fitted weight. Our 27 foot cat (no keels of course) is 2.5T but 3.5T with engine, mast, sails & gear. Taking the engine out and mast off and everything removable will make a huge difference to the weight.

We have been refitting the aft half of the cat 40 miles (50 minutes) from home. I would never ever do this again. Unless I could bring the boat home, in which case I would enjoy it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif It's not the travelling time, but the necessity to go for whole days, this really impacts on the family. My wife is an artist and a year ago built a studio in our garden. Her output is hugely increased because she can paint in spare 2 hour time blocks. What also hurts when I go to the marina is watching other boats go out sailing when I'm stuck breathing paint/glue/sawdust fumes.

I hope all goes well whatever you decide. It will take twice as long and it will cost twice as much, but as I read on the back of my Rizzla papers yesterday "not everything that can be counted counts, and not everthing that counts can be counted". Aparently Einstein said it, but it may have been the Rizzla marketing boys!
 
Going back to the weight issue, there is a point above which you need to have different kit, licences etc.
Whilst this may not be exactly right, I believe 7.5 tons gross (i.e. boat + trailer + towing vehicle) is the limit above which you need to have some kind of HGV licence. At around 3.5 tons I think there is now a need for the towing vehicle to have a tacho.
Overall load height can mean the local police need to be informed in advance.
Certain weights will exceed the safe load for road trailers etc etc
The suggestion of a professional firm to move the boat is not such a daft idea as, apart from all of this, there is the experience of moving things of such a size and shape and, quite importantly, insurance cover.
A cradle at the final destination would be enough to give you somewhere to store her.
 
The points made about location are very valid. Last year I kept my boat at Rochford, about 5 minutes away. This year it is at paglesham - about 20 minutes away. That difference has made a huge change in how much work I can get done. Normally I am in the water at the beginning of March. This year I am only just ready.

On balance I would now side with those saying sell and buy a new one. If you could get a few grand for the 'project' then in the current market you should get a very good boat in the 26 - 28 foot range for 12 - 15K.

I think it might cost a lot more than you expect to rebuild by the time all the costs are totted up. Many years ago I sold a 'project' Hurley 20 to a dreamer. It is stil sitting where I left it nearly a decade later with virtually nothing done. I dread to think how much it has cost in storage in that time.

There are many people who dream of rebuilding something, eager to buy your project on ebay!!
 
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2/ those who refit/rebuild & will go sailing when its finished , unless they can think of "Just one more Job". these are not sailors & will never get sea sick

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You've got someone in mind, haven't you? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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c) In almost every case the owners moved the goal posts to a higher plane, with the inevitable effect on a) and b) above.


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That'll be the addition of the deck saloon and change to cutter rig then! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
At last a bit of detail of what needs doing.......

The hull on the port side is very thin and will need strengthening internally using 3 x 2 oz mat over the area marked on hull in chalk ( 2 sq m).
The cabin furniture removed port and starboard and new floors at 1 m centres in hardwood with scantlings of twice those currently fitted to a hardwood encapsulated box section 2 x 2 ins picking up 4x2 ins top hat framing using encapsulated structural foam at 1 metre centres to under the side decks port and starboard in the Saloon.
Fit similar bilge stringer again port and starboard.
New box section mast compression post in steel to pick up the floors in say 8 mm steel galvanised or stainless. The main fore and aft bulkheads to saloon to be refixed to the hull.
Refit cabin furniture - this will be to a different design.
Repair to cracking on forefoot and the aft of the keel.
The mast footstep will have to be strengthened internally and re-fitted when the hull is stabilised.

Just awaiting a quote now so can go cap in hand to insurers.
 
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