PLAN B

Athene V30

Athene V30

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20 Sep 2001
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Playa del Ingles, Gran Canaria in Winter, the boat
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After a rollercoaster of emotion, sleepless nights etc I have reached a decision.

FLIPPER WILL LIVE ON

The general view now is that there are 2 issues:
1) The mast compression post is not under the mast
2) The laminate is OK but thin - yes have drilled holes in it /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif / ground bits away etc

With the help of Brightlingsea's finest and several others plus a lot of effort and loads of £££ and /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Flipper will be reborn just like Clive has with Seriena and she will be better than ever. Maybe not this season but she will be back in commision for April 2010.

First job is to strip out internally - everything is coming out (except the main bulkhead) including the engine and kitchen sink! Also will strip off every bit of antifouling.

Then the boat wil be leveled & straightened in her cradle / legs under the supervision of my surveyor before the insides are relaminated - several times and strength put back in. Probably putting a foam tank forward and a collision bulkhead too ready for the Azores adventure.

New Engine.

After that I have a good friend who used to fit out Broads Sailing cruisers and he is going to help me redesign the interior and rebuild her.

Easy isn't it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Go for it and I reckon that a great decision. You will know every inch of the boat when you have finished, and that is the greatest booster for confidence.

Take lots of photos for the insurance company - in fact it might be worth bringing them "in" on the project at an early stage so that they know you are doing a proper job.
 
That's great news.
You may find some folks on here who can help in a variety of ways with skills or kit or just encouragement.
Roll on 2010 season for you.
In the meantime, you can be assured of offers of trips from ECF members.
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Oh do make up your mind Peter /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Good to hear the news mate, and anything I can do to help just shout. It's going to be a long hard road but now you've made that decision at least you can make a start on the work with a fresh head on your shoulders. When you need a break there's an open offer here if you fancy some Wash wading.

Now then, wonder if the old engine would fit in Sixpence /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Peter,
Hm. I am a tad concerned, may I be the only one. The following is just my thoughts, and in no way reflects on our growing friendship, so don't take it personally.

The time commitment to such major works is probably more than doing an original home fit out a la Hunters/Colvics etc of the 70s and 80s.

Many of those took years to finish, if at all, and the evidence is scattered around the boatyards to see.

The costs are also very difficult to make work,even if you count labour at zero (not feasible really) as there is so much money to be poured into Flipper.

As a long term Engineering Project manager, I would be delighted if you would allow me to do a fully costed Microsoft Project Plan with Critical Path Analysis just to use as a counter balance to optimism.

If you are an avid follower of Grand Designs (I am) the common theme is that:
a) not a single project fell within budget
b) I can only recall one project that met its time constraints fully
c) In almost every case the owners moved the goal posts to a higher plane, with the inevitable effect on a) and b) above.
d) the post project revisits always revealed some disappointment or a stoic view that it s working,Ok.

As Lynn & I restored our Jouet 680 (only 22 foot), it took us 9 weeks solid as we were both unemployed, and we diligently arrived at 0900 every morning, and packed up as the sun went down. We worked hard all day, and had a lot of hold ups as we discovered we didn't have parts or materials on hand or on site. The results were fantastic, and we made a Silk Purse out of a French sows ear. It cost over 4 grand.

So, an alternative view. Best of luck whatever you do, and I will be delighted to assist in any way I can, particularly sourcing bits and materials cheaply and getting overhaul manuals. I am very good at that.
 
(quote) First job is to strip out internally - everything is coming out (except the main bulkhead) including the engine and kitchen sink! (unquote)

Does that mean your smart upholstery won't fit anymore?

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Joking apart, best of luck with it Peter. Sounds like a huge project to me. I did quite a lot of re-building on Beyond Reason, but had quite a bit of professional help as well as loads of amateur help.

But, when you've finished you'll know exactly what you've got, which wouldn't be the case if you went off looking for a replacement for Flipper.

Best of luck!
 
Peter,

Take Jim up on this offer. If only to have an idea at the start of what you are setting out on. You can also use it to compare the jobs that would need to be done on a new boat to make it Jester proof.

Having a plan and a tick list can be positive as you can track progress, especially on the tasks that make no visible change to the boat as arrive or leave the boatyard.

When I was young I built a rally car from a body shell and boxes of second hand parts, so I know the disappointment of rolling deadlines and spiralling costs, BUT I did finish the project and had several years of fun with the car.

Like others I wish you success on this project.
 
Hope you can find a spare corner in the warehouse to keep it and save you lots of travelling.

I hope you will shout (on here) when brain or brawn is required. Some of the latter still left!

Keep us up to date. Good luck and let us know when you want to go sailing to get away from boat fixing.
 
Jim

Thanks for this. You are quite right but I think it goes back to our logic and heart discussion - well I think we had the discussion but several pints had been consumed!

[ QUOTE ]
If you are an avid follower of Grand Designs (I am) the common theme is that:
a) not a single project fell within budget
b) I can only recall one project that met its time constraints fully
c) In almost every case the owners moved the goal posts to a higher plane, with the inevitable effect on a) and b) above.
d) the post project revisits always revealed some disappointment or a stoic view that it s working,Ok.

[/ QUOTE ] Fully expect to achieve a), b) and c) in that I know I will spend more than I intended, it will take longer and be higher spec. At the end I know I won't have a boat with standing headroom but compared to the half dozen I have looked at in person and several hundred I have seen on line she will be a boat that I want. Logic tells me she will have good hull strength, pretty new sails, new engine, rewired etc which I cannot afford to buy (in one package).

Also on the cost grounds when I did a quick spreasheet of expenditure I split it down into 'refit' costs and 'annual maintenance' costs. For example the lift out / storage / lift in etc would be costs I would have incurred anyway (B'sea HM is refunding my summer berthing /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and keeping me top of the waiting list for next season) so don't count! The engine cost can be spread over several years etc so when you look at it with rose tinted spectacles firmly applied it is very affordable!

PS If you come for a meal on board expect to be fed value baked beans and bring your own toast!
 
Peter,
Excellent news and sound advice I think from Jim.
My penny's worth would be to visualise the project as a re-build as is now. I personally would find that easier than thinking interior re-design as at this stage you wouldn't necessarily know what that would look like or what would be required. Perhaps my brain works differently to others - who knows !

But as has been said, any help, or whatever required, then say so. Keep us all posted on how it is going, and keep thinking of how much more pride you will have crossing that finish line /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
 
Peter

Good luck with Plan B

I would strongly recommend moving her to a location as near to home as possible.

The work we have done on Sireina would have taken far longer if we had to travel to her each time.
Ideal distance from back door = 2 steps.

I do have a 4x4 that can tow up to 3.5 tonne if you can get her on a trailer.
 
I am sure there is a farmer who can assist in providing a barn space with light and electric and lots of advice from Noddy, Mudplugger, Swedish Lass and several other non forumites. Medusa marine also on hand.
Transport to Ardleigh can be arranged as all the above start in Brightlingsea at end of season. PM for number if interested.
As Noddy will testify, once you have used an angle grinder on GRP there is no tool like it.
May even get kickback in one of the mags if you fancy scribing articles.
 
Hurrah for Plan B!

I think there is something to say about motivation management:

1) You need to find your own 'good enough.' If you try to match the quality of workmanship expected from a professional then you may disapoint yourself or redo it several times over. Or you may be an accomplished craftsman.

2) When I started doing up my first cruiser (Macwester 27) Swedish Lass came and sat next to me while I was ripping out the mouldy headlining, seating etc. The conversation went something like this:

SL: Are you going to refit it all in one go or will you do a bit each winter?
N: Definitely the latter option, I need to sail to keep my motivation going.
SL: Well stop taking it to bits then!

I know you are stripping right out but the principle is the same

I am doing up an old boat (my second and last) and expect to be in the barn for about 5 winters before I can leave it in every other winter. It was Swedish Lass who happily told me that his sailing was a '12 month hobby.' In the meantime I have had lots of good sailing including JAC08.

So if you are happy to sit on milk crates for a season it may be possible to get some sailing in this year and finalise your prep for JAC12 over the following winters, slowly improving the boat as you do so.

On the other hand you may want to do it all in one hit - as long as you are aware that there is more than one approach.

Paul
 
How do I work out the boats weight to see if I can put her on a trailer and bring her back to Norfolk?

I certainly have the undercover space!! Have costed in storage where I am as £900 but then a cost I have excluded is the £10 fuel it costs me each time I go to the boat (and thats ignoring the 1 hour each way). Enough to buy me a trailer.

Displacement is reported to be 2,109 kg with Ballast of 725 kg.
 
Don't whatever you do exclude travel time and cost of fuel, these were critical in deciding where to go for the final tweaking and if you have to travel an hour to get to her, you'll find it even harder to get motivated. Get her as close as possible to home and think of a trailer as an investment, not just an expense. The cost of moving by commercial carrier might surprise you.
Paul's comment about only doing what you have to in the begining is something I wish I had been told when refurbishment started on my mobo. Well worth thinking about before tearing everything apart. Look at the actual work needed to sort her out first, then take each job seperately or you could still be working on her in five years time.
Trust me on that one, project boat, 25ft Birchwood Interceptor for sale, £2,000-00 worth of smoked glass windows and a spanking good canopy, all made to measure, aren't a lot of use when the insides are still gutted

I wasn't always skint /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
I would suggest you try and find other boats of similar dimensions/keel configurations to see what they weigh.
It will only be a ball park figure but should give you something to work on.
If the weight is low enough, you may be able to use a trailer. If not, someone with a low loader may be able to help.
We had one of ours transported from Essex to Suffolk that way they also used an A-frame to lift and lower at each end of the journey rather than a crane, which was cheaper.
 
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