Pilothouse / Motorsailer better for sea sickness?

[ylop]

To varying extents wife and I both suffer from sea sickness on board. I’m not looking for your magic cures - ginger, medication and acupuncture type bands all have some level of effectiveness but in a big sea there is a limit and it affects our thoughts about what we might buy.

For West of Scotland Sailing we see a lot of attraction in pilothouse/wheelhouse/motor sailer type boat like Fisher, Colvic, Moody Halbardier, etc - where it’s likely to be possible to trade off sailing performance against a little comfort whilst helming and perhaps a bit less soaking wet oilies to make the living space more pleasant too. If we were retired and able to pick the sailing days to match the weather it might be different but with a few hours to drive to get to the likely mooring and jobs to fund it we have to live with what Scotland throws at us.

Now, we’ve never sailed anything with a pilothouse, and I don’t see (m)any to charter so have no benchmark for what the experience is like “inside” if you suffer from sea sickness. Do those who have experience think it’s better or worse than a classic cruising boat? I’m well aware of the mixed views people have on their sailing qualities, the downsides of increased windage etc... I’m purely interested in if they are better or worse for sea sickness. Obviously some of these may be heavier boats, have different stern shapes etc - so interesting to know how much you would attribute to this?

Perhaps my question should be - what’s the ideal boat* for someone who suffers from sea sickness and wants to spend weeks or weekends on the Scottish West Coast in the maximum comfort?
*assume budget does not involve lottery wins!

 

[Bajansailor]

One of the suggested 'remedies' to help cure sea sickness is to be up on deck, able to see (and relate to) the horizon, rather than being 'down below' on a 'conventional' cruising yacht.
With a motor sailer you can apply this principle by looking out from the wheelhouse, rather than from (eg) a wet and exposed cockpit.
In addition, traditional motor sailer types generally are fairly heavy displacement relatively, hence all else being equal, they should have a more steady motion than a much lighter yacht.

There is an active Motorsailer group on Facebook with approx 1,800 members - if you 'sign up' here -
Motorsailers, motorsailors, motor sailing, motorsailer and motorsailor :)
And ask your question again, I am sure that you will get a good response.

 

[cpedw]

It's a quite individual thing I think. I am fairly immune but my wife suffers fairly readily, though she still comes sailing! When it's getting rough, I find a bit of fresh air in the face refreshing.

We now sail a Nordship 35DS from Oban. It has been more successful for her than the last, a Westerly Falcon. She can stay in the deck saloon with a clear view almost all round, warm, dry and comfortable, chewing ginger and reading novels (if it's not too rough).

The major limitation of the Nordship (and many other similar boats I think) is lack of control from the DS. There's an autopilot remote but hand steering, sheets and throttle are all in the cockpit. Nobody cares if I get cold and wet.

Derek

 

[Stemar]

Being wet and cold is a good way to get seasick if you're already prone to it. Being able to sit inside, warm and dry, with a mug of tea and a few ginger biscuits, but still with a good view of the horizon sounds like a good way to fend it off.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

A common instigator of seasickness is being cold. A boat where you can navigate from somewhere with shelter & heating will alleviate this problem.

Beaten to it by the dragon one!

 

[ashtead]

You might look at a nauticat 43 or such like . A Sirius also looks rather neat as a deck saloon type.

 

[johnalison]

There are so many factors involved that it is difficult to generalise. An open dinghy could be ideal, with its low seating position and clear view, but for an enclosed boat you will have to make compromises. At least with an aft open cockpit you have ready access to the (leeward) side if the worst comes to the worst.

Some centre cockpit boats have very high crew positions and I have several times sailed in company with boats that have suffered seasickness on board in conditions that didn't concern us. In this respect, a pilot house design, such as the Sirius mentioned, would usually be better than something like a Fisher, where the view from the wheelhouse is less open.

 

[ashtead]

I’ve never sailed a Sirius but there are a couple at Haslar marina and they do look quite a clever design and the story of their design is interesting .

 

[Graham376]

Some centre cockpit boats have very high crew positions and I have several times sailed in company with boats that have suffered seasickness on board in conditions that didn't concern us.

We wondered about this when changing from aft to centre cockpit but in the event, my wife's sea sickness virtually disappeared as we're sitting nearer the centre of movement. Stern rising and falling with aft cockpit in lumpy seas always had her heaving.

 

[ylop]

thanks all for your feedback...

One of the suggested 'remedies' to help cure sea sickness is to be up on deck, able to see (and relate to) the horizon, rather than being 'down below' on a 'conventional' cruising yacht.
With a motor sailer you can apply this principle by looking out from the wheelhouse, rather than from (eg) a wet and exposed cockpit.
In addition, traditional motor sailer types generally are fairly heavy displacement relatively, hence all else being equal, they should have a more steady motion than a much lighter yacht.

There is an active Motorsailer group on Facebook with approx 1,800 members - if you 'sign up' here -
Motorsailers, motorsailors, motor sailing, motorsailer and motorsailor :)
And ask your question again, I am sure that you will get a good response.

that was exactly our logic - but I then wondered if actually the benefits were cancelling out this: (I may ask on that motorsailors group but I suspect they may be a bit biased!)

When it's getting rough, I find a bit of fresh air in the face refreshing.

But

There are so many factors involved that it is difficult to generalise. An open dinghy could be ideal, with its low seating position and clear view,

ah well my bank manager also suggested that a drascombe, a tent and some sleeping bags were a better idea as I’ve never felt sea sick in small open boats. But it appears this was not the type of adventure my better half was looking for!

thanks all for your inputs. More examples of boat changes people have made that went from good to bad or vice versa from a sea sickness perspective would be great to hear.

 

[howardclark]

We just had a thread about motorsailers/pilot house vessels.
I’ve had a pilot house boat for twenty years, before that a rear cockpit Westerly and have sailed on a number of production boats.
A pilot cabin certainly helps you keep warmer and dryer, but this alone will not be a cure for seasicknes. Also all pilot cabins put you in the same relative position on the boat as a centre cockpit boat, probably not quite so comfortable in terms of motion as a rear cockpit since you are nearly always up higher.
I think the key is to not have too light a boat- this way you don’t get tossed about as much.
As it happens some pilot house designs are heavier because they are not intended as racers- I’m thinking Victoria 34 or boats like that. Choose a boat that can set a decent amount of sail and you can have the best of both worlds. If however you choose something like a Fisher then be prepared to use the engine more.

 

[howardclark]

Think I meant Vancouver 34.... got the V right at least

 

[LittleSister]

There are so many factors involved that it is difficult to generalise.

+1

Answers thus far have concentrated on the physical aspects, but I think there are also psychological ones.

For example, a friend's partner didn't like sailing, was frightened of the water, and was often sick. She hated the rolling. So he bought a catamaran. She was still sick. She did later largely overcome the problem, but in tiny craft that rolled and pitched much, much more (and were significantly more hazardous to boot). I am convinced that at least part of it was that she felt, at some level, more in control: she knew how the boat was moved, what the various parts could do, and she was actively engaged in them. This was in contrast to her passive role on the big boats, with their complicated gear and big loads, and her much more experienced partner and his chums doing all the ship handling.

I may ask on that motorsailors group but I suspect they may be a bit biased!

People biased in favour of their own boats? Whatever next?

As it happens, I now sail a motor-sailer and I'm not entirely convinced they're necessarily better. I suspect it probably depends on the person and how they're affected.

I rarely get seasick (motor-sailer or not), but I'm not immune.

Keeping warm and fed is important (I favour Matzos or other dry biscuits, rather than ginger), and that's usually easier in a motor-sailor, but so is fresh air Important.

I am lucky in that I can open the doors and/or roof-hatch of my wheelhouse and be inside and sheltered from the worst of the weather, but still have fresh air. I'm not sure all motor-sailers/deck saloons allow that.

My boat rolls a fair bit in certain seas, and I dare say some other motor-sailers do, too. I find that both sitting in the helm seat, and having the horizon and the rest of the outside world framed by the windows which are swinging from side to side, tends to emphasise or even exaggerate the rolling. I find a boat's rolling and pitching much less noticeable if I'm standing in the cockpit, where I'm unconsciously constantly adjusting my legs to the movement of the boat while my torso and head stay more or less upright in relation to the horizon. Fortunately my particular motor-sailer also has a cockpit with tiller so I can chose that option. (Even in the wheelhouse I often stand alongside the wheel, rather than sit behind it.) My boat's wheelhouse is also no higher than the sprayhood of a similar sized cruising boat, so doesn't suffer the increased movement that would come from being higher up.

On a related note, I generally find being below on a boat, out of sight of the horizon, particularly difficult, especially if I'm having to concentrate on, say, a book or chart, cooking, or hanging upside down trying to repair an oily engine while the boat moves around. I am usually OK, though, if I can lie down and relax (not having to brace myself) and can close my eyes. I try to make as rapid as possible transition from being up and seeing out of the windows, to being laid down with my eyes shut.

Another advantage of my particular motor-sailer is the absence of a bridge deck (it's just one shallow step down from cockpit to wheelhouse, and two more shallow steps into the saloon). It would be a serious disadvantage if I ever found myself out in the ultimate storm, I know, but in more general use it makes the boat feel so much more open and airier, which would help those who find yachts a bit claustrophobic, and aids communication between people in the saloon, wheelhouse and cockpit (though there are doors between each if privacy or quiet is preferred).

Whatever the means, I hope you find a good solution to your challenge.

 

[cueball]

One thing to be aware of with pilot houses. The construction of the pilot house will raise the weight and make it top heavy, they can be prone to rolling more.

 

[Jungle Jim]

I have to now crewed on Bavarias and the like, in the cockpit I'm fine in most conditions except for one 18 hour cross channel where the continual cold and wet eventually did for me. However going below in the first 24 hours in any sort of sea doesn't end well.
I am now just starting to crew on a Fisher with a wheelhouse. Out last week in Christchurch Bay it seemed very lumpy and I needed the stugeron after a couple of hours despite being in sight of the horizon all the time. I feel I have been out in similar conditions in a Bavaria without issue. Subject to weather we have a weekend out soon so I can report back after a longer trip.
One thing I have noticed though, we motored in light winds from astern and the exhaust fumes basically turn the pilot house into a gas chamber, that didn't make me feel much better

 

[Jungle Jim]

One thing to be aware of with pilot houses. The construction of the pilot house will raise the weight and make it top heavy, they can be prone to rolling more.

Ah, that might explain my experience. It certainly felt more rolly than the awb's I've been on, so much so that the cockpit cupboard needs repairing after I went through it.

 

[Laminar Flow]

We own a modified Watson 32. My wife and I have sailed her some 10,000 miles since we bought her. While I have fortunately inherited my mother's sea legs, my wife, initially, tends to suffer a bit from mal de mer. We keep it under control with chemical assistance until it generally abates after a few days on board.

As others have pointed out these boats can be a bit rolly. In spite of their generous displacement they have very buoyant hulls with relatively high ballast ratios. This is part and partial of their seaworthiness.
We have been out in some rather impressive seas, the Swinge at Alderney and last year, the inside passage at Selsey Bill come to mind; never once did we ever manage to put her bow through a wave nor does she ever slam going through a head sea. Pronounced pitching can be a problem with some double ended designs, but in the case of the Watson the generous displacement in her ends successfully suppresses any such tendency.

Since we have doubled the sail area on our boat her motion in a sea way has been significantly reduced. It also generally pays to maintain as high a speed as possible as speed increases roll resistance. A taller rig, as in our case, increases inertia and slows down the roll. My wife would happily attest to the effectiveness of all the above.
Overall I have to say that she rolls a lot less than some other non motorsailer types I have sailed on, some easily rolling through 90 degrees side to side, downwind and under spinnaker.

Be that all as it may, I cannot overstate the outstanding improvement in comfort and, consequentially, in safety that a proper wheelhouse with good all-round visibility provides. Feeling sea sick is undoubtedly a miserable affair; feeling sick while being wet and cold as well is exponentially worse.

 

[crewman]

Alba sailing at Dunstaffnage have a 43 ft pilot house Beneteau for charter. I have chartered off them several times and have always had a good experience. No idea of its availability.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I suffer from seasickness at times, and the following are the triggers:

1) the smell of diesel
2) being below unable to see the horizon
3) Cold, wet or tired!
4) A long passage early in a period aboard.

1) is the same on any boat
2) Should be OK in a pilot-house
3) Improved by a pilot house
4) Unchanged.

So, on average, I'd expect to be better off in a pilot-house than in an open cockpit. I suspect that a comfortable and well-designed seat at the wheel would help, too.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I suffer rom sea sickness going below to make tea in a blow in our Westerly Pentland gave us both great queasyness. In the wheelhouse of our LM27 we seem ok in a blow and can read charts and make our teas in only moderate discomfort. Going below to main cabin still horrible of course.

The Navigator loves a wheelhouse, and says the loss of speed due to change of boat more than compensated for by being more cosy

She does roll a lot more than the Pentland, despite what Little Sister says but that may be due to her long keel shallow draft. Bilge keels seem to reduce rolling better than long keels of same depth.