Petrol and LPG

[hg2016]

Morning all,
has anybody or does anybody do a dual fuel petrol and LPG conversion. And is LPG available at the waterside.
It would be interesting to read about any experiences.
Regards
HG

 

[rubberduck]

We considered this years ago but didn't follow through thankfully, even though we were promised supply at Essex marina, who later removed it & failed to relocate to the river Roach as they had indicated would happen.
In the 12 years since have not seen it available pretty much anywhere we have been.

 

[mlines]

It's quite a common conversion for ski boats on a lake as they can install a tank on the land to locally store fuel. Our local ski lake in Maidenhead has their boats converted

 

[dpb]

We had a mercruiser 5.7 V8 converted back in the late 90's when Calor had their marina infra structure in place....now all gone I believe.
It was never entirely satisfactory for various reasons. The tanks took a lot of room so capacity and range were limited so needed to be dual fuel, and the tech at the time was such that the set up was a compromise and fiddly touse. Would not do it again based on our experience.
If there is a currently available system, and you could get enough fuel capacity in the boat, probably would only make sence for a trailered boat so you can use car fueling infrastructure.

 

[KevB]

We had LPG fitted to our 2 x 5ltr petrol boat about 17 years ago. It ran faultless for the time we owned the boat with no cold start issues or anything. Very smooth power delivery and massive cost saving on day to day usage. Obviously never got our money back on the £5k cost of the installation in fuel usage alone but after having the boat for about a year sold it for £10k more than we paid for it so was well chuffed.

Back then there were about 26 marina's along the south cost who sold LPG, haven't a clue where sells it now.

 

[hg2016]

We considered this years ago but didn't follow through thankfully, even though we were promised supply at Essex marina, who later removed it & failed to relocate to the river Roach as they had indicated would happen.
In the 12 years since have not seen it available pretty much anywhere we have been.

Thanks for your post rubberduck. It seems that availability at the waterside is virtually zero so far. I did find it a little strange that I have only managed to find one converted sports cruiser in all my months of searching. Its still a little baffling though(apart from taking up space) why the boating world has not grasped this opportunity like the automotive world has?

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for your post rubberduck. It seems that availability at the waterside is virtually zero so far. I did find it a little strange that I have only managed to find one converted sports cruiser in all my months of searching. Its still a little baffling though(apart from taking up space) why the boating world has not grasped this opportunity like the automotive world has?

The answer to that is pretty simple. There are (comparatively) very few petrol engined boats capable of conversion and most do very low hours, so the cost of conversion is just not economic as KevB says. Calor did think it would and put in the infrastructure but it did not take off.

Not entirely sure the "automotive" world has taken to LPG in any significant way. Do you have some reliable data to support this statement.

 

[hg2016]

The answer to that is pretty simple. There are (comparatively) very few petrol engined boats capable of conversion and most do very low hours, so the cost of conversion is just not economic as KevB says. Calor did think it would and put in the infrastructure but it did not take off.

Not entirely sure the "automotive" world has taken to LPG in any significant way. Do you have some reliable data to support this statement.

Thanks Tranona,
no ,I dont have any reliable data to support this. All know is that LPG is now quite widely available at service stations. Also I do have 3 friends who have LPG conversions
2 have Range Rovers and one has a Chrysler voyager and in my social circles that's quite a lot.
As for the economic viability, if I sold a boat for £10K more after 1 year of cheaper fun boating I'd say thats a good earner.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks Tranona,
no ,I dont have any reliable data to support this. All know is that LPG is now quite widely available at service stations. Also I do have 3 friends who have LPG conversions
2 have Range Rovers and one has a Chrysler voyager and in my social circles that's quite a lot.
As for the economic viability, if I sold a boat for £10K more after 1 year of cheaper fun boating I'd say thats a good earner.

Those are all old vehicles from the time that LPG had a brief run. Remember that Range rovers were all petrol until recently, but newer diesel ones will be far more economical than old LPG conversions. Doubt there are any conversion kits for modern petrol engines, and as diesels have been used in around 50% of cars for the last few years can't see any ongoing demand.

Making a profit on a boat, even in the halcyon days was a rare event, and most unlikely to happen now!

 

[hg2016]

Those are all old vehicles from the time that LPG had a brief run. Remember that Range rovers were all petrol until recently, but newer diesel ones will be far more economical than old LPG conversions. Doubt there are any conversion kits for modern petrol engines, and as diesels have been used in around 50% of cars for the last few years can't see any ongoing demand.

Making a profit on a boat, even in the halcyon days was a rare event, and most unlikely to happen now!

Whats going to happen with all the restrictions the govt are talking about putting on diesel in the automotive world? Would LPG/petrol not be a better option in the future.
Could this not transfer to the leisure marine sector ?

 

[Tranona]

Whats going to happen with all the restrictions the govt are talking about putting on diesel in the automotive world? Would LPG/petrol not be a better option in the future.
Could this not transfer to the leisure marine sector ?

No. It was not a particularly good solution and as you can see never made much impression on the marine market even in its heyday. It was diesels that really killed it, giving superior fuel economy and effectively killing petrol engines of larger capacity.

All the development money now is going into hybrid and electric. I have not seen any mention of LPG as viable for the future which may well result in spin offs for the marine market.

Just about all of the inboard engines used in marine applications are derivatives of engines used in road vehicles, or in the small hp range, industrial engines. Only the big US made v6 and v8 are remotely suitable for LPG and they represent a tiny part of the European market.

There are unlikely to be any restrictions placed on marine engines by government other than those that already apply to the base engines.

 

[hg2016]

No. It was not a particularly good solution and as you can see never made much impression on the marine market even in its heyday. It was diesels that really killed it, giving superior fuel economy and effectively killing petrol engines of larger capacity.

All the development money now is going into hybrid and electric. I have not seen any mention of LPG as viable for the future which may well result in spin offs for the marine market.

Just about all of the inboard engines used in marine applications are derivatives of engines used in road vehicles, or in the small hp range, industrial engines. Only the big US made v6 and v8 are remotely suitable for LPG and they represent a tiny part of the European market.

There are unlikely to be any restrictions placed on marine engines by government other than those that already apply to the base engines.

I see. In the UK however, am I right in thinking its a bit different. I have found that boats 30ft and above are always single or twin diesels but the size I'm looking at are predominantly petrol engined. (7.5/8m sports cruiser). I dont mind petrol myself but the mrs is pushing hard for a diesel. e.g sealine s23 with a Kad32. But for a 2004 boat I'm looking at £34k ish. For a yank boat on petrol (5.0L MPI) 2006 I can pick one up for £23k.

 

[hg2016]

We had a mercruiser 5.7 V8 converted back in the late 90's when Calor had their marina infra structure in place....now all gone I believe.
It was never entirely satisfactory for various reasons. The tanks took a lot of room so capacity and range were limited so needed to be dual fuel, and the tech at the time was such that the set up was a compromise and fiddly touse. Would not do it again based on our experience.
If there is a currently available system, and you could get enough fuel capacity in the boat, probably would only make sence for a trailered boat so you can use car fueling infrastructure.

Thanks dpd,
it looks like I'm barking up the wrong tree with this one. Like you say, there is only a automotive infrastructure and after a little research that shows to be limited too. It's good to get the feedback from knowledgeable people though. It has given me an understanding of why this didn't take of in the marine world. And it appears that diesel is now doing the job in the automotive world too.
Thanks for your post.

 

[Tranona]

I see. In the UK however, am I right in thinking its a bit different. I have found that boats 30ft and above are always single or twin diesels but the size I'm looking at are predominantly petrol engined. (7.5/8m sports cruiser). I dont mind petrol myself but the mrs is pushing hard for a diesel. e.g sealine s23 with a Kad32. But for a 2004 boat I'm looking at £34k ish. For a yank boat on petrol (5.0L MPI) 2006 I can pick one up for £23k.

The difference in price just reflects the market. the petrol engined boats are cheaper to make, particularly (in the past anyway) when they come from the US and therefore cheaper to buy. The running costs in this sector are not hugely different aas the usual hours running is low, but petrol is difficult to find so the use of such boats can be restricted.

Diesels command a premium because they are more expensive to build, far better marinised and longer lived, fuel is easily available. The size you are looking at is the sort of changeover point where the benefits of diesel begin to show, but given the price differential there are less boats sold so lower supply in the market which keeps the price up.

There are clearly people who are prepared to put up with the drawbacks of petrol because of the lower price, but as you have seen LPG is not the answer - even though it was thought to be 20 odd years ago when Calor tried it.