Penlee RNLI Rescue Last Night

[Fr J Hackett]

Well , if our Coast Guard are not checking for craft closing in onto our shores , who the /// is watching out for Illegal craft then ? Certainly the RNLI are not either ,

So are our shores left unguarded or observed ?

So much for Homeland Security then ?

Perhaps Putin is more aware of our security (the lack of) than we are ?

You are captain Mainwaring and I claim my £5

 

[glawster2000]

Doing a very minor volunteer role at Penlee, I'm privileged to know Cox'n Patch Harvey and his crew down at RNLI Penlee station. I wouldn't comment on the specifics of the incident but as a part owner of a yacht in Falmouth, I'm always comforted by the knowledge that people like Patch and all the crew at Penlee and all other RNLI stations in the UK and Ireland will assist without judgement.
The RNLI have attracted criticism in this forum on occasions but when you properly understand the commitment of volunteers to attend in weather like this shout, you can't help being in awe of their bravery. The recent 40th anniversary of the Solomon Browne disaster is still a real memory for those of us in the area

 

[Capt Popeye]

well just might ask this maybe awkward question , rather sensitive to many I guess , but ; re the Penlee Lifeboat loss , did or does the Coast Guard have the power to instruct any lifeboat to withdraw from an incident if they (CG) decides that its safer to withdraw a RNLI boat from an incident if the sittuation really in best interest requires it ?

As I understand it the RNLI are called out by the CG to attend an incident , so guess they can also comand that theRNLI withdraw from an incident , true or false ?

The CG are perhaps in the best possition to assess the developing incident as having many more scources of relevant information to hand at the time ; maybe its best to withdraw with whats saved than carry on and risk it all , sometimes ?

Be interested in any constructive replys or information

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I was at anchor in the river Fal last night, and even-up river the conditions when the front came through were pretty horrid; visibility was ~200m, pitch dark with driving rain, and the boat heeling 20° in the gusts. And this was in the Fal, in Mounts Bay it would have been horrendous!

I take it the 'Snowflakes' comment above was meant to be tongue-in-cheek?

It was, really?, but I have been in the Channel at this time of year in almost identical conditions, but in a well -found boat with a strong crew and with a skipper who is now a prominent solo offshore racer in France.

 

[ridgy]

well just might ask this maybe awkward question , rather sensitive to many I guess , but ; re the Penlee Lifeboat loss , did or does the Coast Guard have the power to instruct any lifeboat to withdraw from an incident if they (CG) decides that its safer to withdraw a RNLI boat from an incident if the sittuation really in best interest requires it ?

As I understand it the RNLI are called out by the CG to attend an incident , so guess they can also comand that theRNLI withdraw from an incident , true or false ?

The CG are perhaps in the best possition to assess the developing incident as having many more scources of relevant information to hand at the time ; maybe its best to withdraw with whats saved than carry on and risk it all , sometimes ?

Be interested in any constructive replys or information

Coxswain must decide whether to launch and whether to stay launched. His life and his boat. Who else could possibly make that decision?

 

[geem]

Well , if our Coast Guard are not checking for craft closing in onto our shores , who the /// is watching out for Illegal craft then ? Certainly the RNLI are not either ,

So are our shores left unguarded or observed ?

So much for Homeland Security then ?

Perhaps Putin is more aware of our security (the lack of) than we are ?

Don't expect CG to be watching everything. From my experience they quite often won't know you are there until you tell them

 

[Juan Twothree]

Well , if our Coast Guard are not checking for craft closing in onto our shores , who the /// is watching out for Illegal craft then ? Certainly the RNLI are not either ,

So are our shores left unguarded or observed ?

So much for Homeland Security then ?

Perhaps Putin is more aware of our security (the lack of) than we are ?

HM Coastguard hasn't had any security/guarding role since the middle of the 19th century.

And the RNLI has never has.

It's basically down to Border Force, working with the National Crime Agency, and sometimes the police, plus the Royal Navy if things start getting serious.

 

[Juan Twothree]

well just might ask this maybe awkward question , rather sensitive to many I guess , but ; re the Penlee Lifeboat loss , did or does the Coast Guard have the power to instruct any lifeboat to withdraw from an incident if they (CG) decides that its safer to withdraw a RNLI boat from an incident if the sittuation really in best interest requires it ?

As I understand it the RNLI are called out by the CG to attend an incident , so guess they can also comand that theRNLI withdraw from an incident , true or false ?

The CG are perhaps in the best possition to assess the developing incident as having many more scources of relevant information to hand at the time ; maybe its best to withdraw with whats saved than carry on and risk it all , sometimes ?

Be interested in any constructive replys or information

The Coastguard REQUEST a lifeboat to launch, they can't order it.

Once it does launch, they coordinate the rescue, giving the LB search instructions etc

But the decision on how to assist a casualty, whether or not to tow etc is solely down to the coxswain/helm, in consultation with the skipper of whatever boat they're assisting.

At the conclusion, the CG then release the LB from the incident, and it is free to return to station. It doesn't get ordered to do so.

 

[Whaup367]

An abject lesson to all about what a bad idea hull portlights are.

The CG report suggests this was the starting point from which things went downhill: "They reported a window broke at the water line and they started taking on water fast".

It's fairly easy to imagine how quickly the situation might get out of hand from that- it's a pretty big hole and |I would imagine that there would be ingress on either tack (submerged/waves). With water inside the boat the rig would be under even more strain, engine/pumps potentially compromised. No guarantee that the boat would make it to shelter. Very nasty situation.

Was the boat suitable for the conditions? A single event doesn't necessarily mean the hull lights are fundamentally flawed but. how would a sailor know they are safe; what caused the breakage, I wonder?

Edit: Will there be an MIAB investigation?

 

[ylop]

Popeye - are you American? All this talk of homeland security and coastguards commanding people (including the RNLI) to do stuff, sounds like you don’t sail in U.K. waters? We have a far more civilised approach based on common sense and cooperation.

Whaup367 since neither vessel nor crew were lost I don’t think it will meet the maib threshold for investigation. Ignore the weather and it just becomes another “boat had issue, boat got tow” story which make up a big chunk of RNLI call outs. Whilst port lights failing seem huge vulnerabilities to modern sailors our grandfathers contended with sprung planks.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Well since our CG are not actually guarding our shore or craft anymore then , who actually looks ot for Distress Flares then ?

Are Distress Flares now obsolete then ?

Who looks out for for those in distress then ?

Who looks out for any invasion then ?

Might state that if all the comments are correct , about the lack of Observation over our waters , our Maritime Safety has certaily gone downhill since the mid 1900

Seems to me that our Country has certainly become a soft touch for Illegals etc
Cripes

 

[Capt Popeye]

Popeye - are you American? All this talk of homeland security and coastguards commanding people (including the RNLI) to do stuff, sounds like you don’t sail in U.K. waters? We have a far more civilised approach based on common sense and cooperation.

Whaup367 since neither vessel nor crew were lost I don’t think it will meet the maib threshold for investigation. Ignore the weather and it just becomes another “boat had issue, boat got tow” story which make up a big chunk of RNLI call outs. Whilst port lights failing seem huge vulnerabilities to modern sailors our grandfathers contended with sprung planks.

Well civilised you say , cripes fella its now certainly unmanageable not civilised at all

Might mention that with that terrible loss of life many years ago , it might have saved most of the Ships and RNLI crew if the Cox had actuall called of any further attemps to take crew off the stricken ship and made for home with those already safely onboard

That certainly in my opinion would have been the wisest course of action in those terrible circumstances ;

Not a desireable sittuation but my opinion is thats it would have been the bestcourse of action ; and that course of action would have had the best outcome

 

[DJE]

In the video the yacht seems to have been able to make way onder engine, in what appears to have been a large, but not unmanageable swell, with no sign of breaking waves.

The yacht was being towed by the lifeboat at the time the helicopter was on scene.

 

[Tranona]

Well since our CG are not actually guarding our shore or craft anymore then , who actually looks ot for Distress Flares then ?

Are Distress Flares now obsolete then ?

Who looks out for for those in distress then ?

You do seem to be out of touch. Yes, distress flares are largely obsolete. Have you not heard of things like radios, automatic distress systems mobile phones etc? Just wonder if you have any evidence that people have been lost in coastal waters because nobody on land saw their distress flares? Light sources (both pyro and electronic) have their place in short range location of casualties but are pretty ineffective in notifying the rescue services if you are in difficulty and need assistance.

Suggest you watch Saving Lives at Sea on the television (i assume you are sufficiently progressive to have one) to get a flavour of how how our wonderful rescue services find out about people in distress. I think you will find that distress flares never get a mention!

 

[doug748]

Well re the comments about putting Lifeboat Personel at risk; surely all lifeboat Personnel put their own lives at risk , by choice , its a low risk perhaps , owing to the Very Well fitted out Boats , Training , safety gear , uniform , all made /built for dangerous conditions

Cannot understand how any Boat /Craft can get so close inshore without our Coast Guards being aware of it , then ordering it to move offshore into safer waters , or hiring in a Tug to move it into safer waters ?

We were ashore yesterday , in North Devon , near Clovely , and the Driving Rain was really Heavy , the wind was also really strong ; the combined effect was to obliterate any distant view all together , so loosing ones bearings was quite possible in that Storm

Really nasty

There was a tug permanently on station in Mounts Bay but it was withdrawn. Doubt it was the type of vessel that could take a yacht in tow, it was there for pulling ships off Lands End.

It was a very dodgy position I doubt they had much longer than a couple of hours before they were in real trouble:



It gives me the creeps in summer conditions, the waves come all the way from Rio.

I wonder what the yachts course was? Some smart IT person may be able to reveal it's AIS track.

.

 

[Capt Popeye]

You do seem to be out of touch. Yes, distress flares are largely obsolete. Have you not heard of things like radios, automatic distress systems mobile phones etc? Just wonder if you have any evidence that people have been lost in coastal waters because nobody on land saw their distress flares? Light sources (both pyro and electronic) have their place in short range location of casualties but are pretty ineffective in notifying the rescue services if you are in difficulty and need assistance.

Suggest you watch Saving Lives at Sea on the television (i assume you are sufficiently progressive to have one) to get a flavour of how how our wonderful rescue services find out about people in distress. I think you will find that distress flares never get a mention!

Yes well guess all those distress systems that you refer to can fail , non function , etc etc wheras a Flare is pretty reliable and means just one thing

The non technical amoungst us can both see and understand what a Flare means / is surely

So we might just let off our Flares anytime at sea now and nobody is watching out for them ?

 

[Capt Popeye]

well what I am stating is that in these days of mass communication /information etc its really out of date to rely upon a RNLI Cox to make the calls on their own , plus the Skipper of a Craft in danger is perhaps not the best to ask any opinions of , as they got their craft into that danger ?

Surely a rescue attempt ought to be best managed as possible , thats objectively and best informed , thats clearly a combined opinion not someone up to their neck in the rescue

Might suggest that Flares are possibly the main option for small craft , like dinghys , Boards , Canoes etc cannot see these craft having big electronic equipment etc ;

Might suggest that if a crafts Electrical system has gone down then its Electronics are poss also down as well

Just seems to me that our safety at Sea has been comprimised greatly , especially if our CG are too busy to keep a Lookout ?

 

[Boathook]

Yes well guess all those distress systems that you refer to can fail , non function , etc etc wheras a Flare is pretty reliable and means just one thing

The non technical amoungst us can both see and understand what a Flare means / is surely

So we might just let off our Flares anytime at sea now and nobody is watching out for them ?

People might see the flare, but apart from the NCI nobody is actually watching for a flare and the NCI are only part time.

 

[Boathook]

well what I am stating is that in these days of mass communication /information etc its really out of date to rely upon a RNLI Cox to make the calls on their own , plus the Skipper of a Craft in danger is perhaps not the best to ask any opinions of , as they got their craft into that danger ?

Surely a rescue attempt ought to be best managed as possible , thats objectively and best informed , thats clearly a combined opinion not someone up to their neck in the rescue

Might suggest that Flares are possibly the main option for small craft , like dinghys , Boards , Canoes etc cannot see these craft having big electronic equipment etc ;

Might suggest that if a crafts Electrical system has gone down then its Electronics are poss also down as well

Just seems to me that our safety at Sea has been comprimised greatly , especially if our CG are too busy to keep a Lookout ?

Watch the programme on BBC, Saving Lives At Sea. Most call outs originate from either a VHF or mobile call either from those in distress or from those who see the incident. The coastguard just mainly coordinate the various services to attend as they know who are available to be called out.

 

[oldharry]

well just might ask this maybe awkward question , rather sensitive to many I guess , but ; re the Penlee Lifeboat loss , did or does the Coast Guard have the power to instruct any lifeboat to withdraw from an incident if they (CG) decides that its safer to withdraw a RNLI boat from an incident if the sittuation really in best interest requires it ?

As I understand it the RNLI are called out by the CG to attend an incident , so guess they can also comand that theRNLI withdraw from an incident , true or false ?

The CG are perhaps in the best possition to assess the developing incident as having many more scources of relevant information to hand at the time ; maybe its best to withdraw with whats saved than carry on and risk it all , sometimes ?

Be interested in any constructive replys or information

As I understand it it was always the On Scene Commander who had the final say in any operation. If the LB is the only major unit on scene then the Cox has the final say.