P'd off with Princess.

[J12345T]

Hi All,

I've just arrived home from a very frustrating couple of days doing jobs on the boat (down under New Zealand)..

As some of you may know I have a 2008 Princess 50 mark 3. Mostly a good boat but the first year ownership gripes are starting to pile up.

After spending a king's ransom replacing all the teak with Marine Deck (cork) due to leaking, rotten teak and therefore damaged cockpit floor and therefore leaking hidden engine room hatches (urgh!) I finally thought I was over the hump.

Having purchased a beaut new dinghy (Polycraft Tuffy 3.0) I was using the passerelle to lift her onto her new home on the swim platform. The passerelle is rated at 450kg lift capacity and the dinghy plus motor is only 160kg. As she started to come out of the water we all heard a nasty crack! The passerelle ram foot had just busted the bleeping swim platform deck! Turns out whilst the passerelle may be rated for 450kg's the balsa wood and chewing gum deck is rated for about 4.5kg's.

Puzzling as I have seen many a passerelle equipped Princess with 300kg plus jet skis on the swim platforms. What am I missing?

Cheers,

James.

 

[rubberduck]

Proper installation at a guess.

 

[CLB]

To be fair, 11 year old boats will have a few issues, and teak at that age is likely to be one of them. Balsa Cored decks are very strong, as long as they remain dry. I guess the former problem was a direct cause of the latter.

 

[petem]

Are you sure the passerelle was fitted by the factory and not added later?

 

[Aardee]

I can understand why you're frustrated with YOUR Princess, but to lay the blame at door of the factory for issues on a 10-year-old boat is a little harsh.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I can understand why you're frustrated with YOUR Princess, but to lay the blame at door of the factory for issues on a 10-year-old boat is a little harsh.

For the teak I agree. The passarelle I do not agree, since most boats after 2000 and in around the 15 meter size tended to be fitted with a passarelle of an average weight of 200 kg.
This is a 2009 and with an extended bathing platform to stow a tender, which usually is around that weight.
Water leaking seems to be an issue with 2008-10 era Princess as I have brokered a 42 and 45 and both had the fair share of it.

 

[Portofino]

Teak veneers in the Med have just about had it .

But that’s not the issue here .The issue is the weak bathing platform.
It would have had a tender on it and it would have had weight on the pass foot .

The bathing platform veneers go first .High traffic and more wetted .
So iam betting that teak looks ok because it’s not original ....it’s on its second , it’s already been replaced unlike the side decks and elsewhere which are original and close to knackered?

So setting the screen here this .......and draw your own conclusions.

In la Nap we have all 3 UK dealers and frequent new boats coming through for PDI .

Some of that stuff before hand over is adding “ dealer fit extras “
Others are “ rectifying “ stuff .

So this is what I have to endure walking the dog .

Princess ..total replacement of the swim platform teak on a new 50 .They chisel it off and sand the gel coat and place each piece ( cutting the strips on the jetty ) one by one with black caulk , but crucially place loads of 56 Lb weights and leave for 4/5 days to dry .Real teak strips no veneers.btw .
Point is no holes drilled .Then cut off the flash and mild sand .
That’s factory guys sent down to the SoF .
So the integrity of the water proof ness of the structure is not compromised.

Now that contrast that to this .......
One day early Sumer a brand new Fairline targa 43 moored next door .
No teak side decks ,just the swim and cockpit .
Next morning we were awoken to the sound of angle grinders operated by local Fr guys buffing the side decks , making them rough and thankfully hoovering up the mess as they went along .
Day 2 a set of pre cut shaped veneers arrive and are placed on the jetty .
The Fr guys attempt to fit ....teaming out the side decks ,They are ex factory sheets and need a bit of tweaking to fit perfectly.Once that done they glue them down .......
Now this is the point and its very important

Rather than weight them down ( some 2/3 M long ) they .......wait for it ...
Use SELF TAPPERS with large off cuts acting a washers in a force distribution way .
Drilling holes into the new sheets between the veneered planks , in the black caulk and screwing them down into the deck .
That deck was a complete weatherproof layer before .....now hundreds of holes .
Two days later they returned and removed the screws and with a caulk gun back filled the hundred old screw holes .Then final sand .

Owner arrives , bottle of fizzy on ice on the table etc etc completely oblivious to the fact the side decks are peppered with hundreds of holes .Ok covered up .

Roll on a few seasons ....thermal and structural movement = potential water ingress through the holes into the deck core material and soggy spongy “ 4.5 kg “ breaking strain decks .

Or water ingress like the other thread FL Targa 43 .

So if the Op s teak swim platform teak has been screwed down then backfilled after it set ( as opposed to weights ) then that’s where water will eventually find its way in .

 

[petem]

Porto, I don't think anyone would argue that drilling holes in a side deck is a good idea but unless the fitters turned up in a Fairline van we have no idea who they were or who employed them.

 

[petem]

Hi All,

I've just arrived home from a very frustrating couple of days doing jobs on the boat (down under New Zealand)..

As some of you may know I have a 2008 Princess 50 mark 3. Mostly a good boat but the first year ownership gripes are starting to pile up.

After spending a king's ransom replacing all the teak with Marine Deck (cork) due to leaking, rotten teak and therefore damaged cockpit floor and therefore leaking hidden engine room hatches (urgh!) I finally thought I was over the hump.

Having purchased a beaut new dinghy (Polycraft Tuffy 3.0) I was using the passerelle to lift her onto her new home on the swim platform. The passerelle is rated at 450kg lift capacity and the dinghy plus motor is only 160kg. As she started to come out of the water we all heard a nasty crack! The passerelle ram foot had just busted the bleeping swim platform deck! Turns out whilst the passerelle may be rated for 450kg's the balsa wood and chewing gum deck is rated for about 4.5kg's.

Puzzling as I have seen many a passerelle equipped Princess with 300kg plus jet skis on the swim platforms. What am I missing?

Cheers,

James.

Here's a Princess 50 Mk III - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4d8w3VxOPY. Note that the Pas ram is nowhere near the swim platform. As I said earlier, as you sure your Pas is original fit?

Sorry, meant to say that when a pasarelle is fitted b the factory they often strengthen the stern accordingly. Therefore, you can't always just bolt one on to a non-pas boat and assume that the stern will take the strain.

 

[Portofino]

Porto, I don't think anyone would argue that drilling holes in a side deck is a good idea but unless the fitters turned up in a Fairline van we have no idea who they were or who employed them.

Yes but the point is there seems to be two ways of dealing with the gel coat integrity .

Probably driven by the two techniques .
Real strips are weighted and sheet veneers self tapered to follow the curves and contours.

The guys had FL logo Ed shirts on but where local French .I don’t think that matters .
The sheets came from England in FL wrapping .As does the wrapping for the other two brands , All three send stuff from the factory .
The S/Sker techs are all English , the Princess local Fr , I don’t think that important .
It’s following factory fit instructions who ever they are in my book .

 

[MapisM]

balsa wood and chewing gum deck

I think this is enough to answer petem question, i.e. the passerelle was NOT factory fitted.
Fitting a hydraulic cylinder meant to withstand heavy load on a cored surface is sheer madness.
Did you have the boat surveyed before purchasing?

 

[Hurricane]

I remember looking at the P50 mark 3 back in 2008.
Same age as ours but the design of the P50 mark 3 is much more recent.
This was one of the first boats to make the entrance to the crews quarters more accessible.
As a result, there probably isn't an easy way to strengthen the area where the passerelle is fixed.
I am sure that Princess would have done the job properly if it were factory fitted so it seems to me that this one has been simply bolted on.

 

[MapisM]

Owner arrives , bottle of fizzy on ice on the table etc etc completely oblivious to the fact the side decks are peppered with hundreds of holes

At risk of sounding cynic, that's what he deserves.
Leaving aside the fact that deciding to spend a substantial amount of money just for making the boat more posh and less functional is a nonsense (I appreciate that this is a personal opinion), commissioning such a critical job and not going to check how it's done is beyond optimistic.
Darwinian theory in action!

 

[Portofino]

At risk of sounding cynic, that's what he deserves.
Leaving aside the fact that deciding to spend a substantial amount of money just for making the boat more posh and less functional is a nonsense (I appreciate that this is a personal opinion), commissioning such a critical job and not going to check how it's done is beyond optimistic.
Darwinian theory in action!

Yes agree but on here the forum most are conscientious boaters with a huge acclimated experience.
There’s an increasing trend partly fuelled by the builders at shows , that boats are just an extension of your wealth and basically a floating apartment .Any one can have one there’s no bars to entry of this club ...indeed all you need is loadsa £/€ .

A prerequisite number of neurones is not required

Reminds me of a mate who after a long WE on my 37 ft portofino 35 decided to get a boat .
Fast fwd a and he was the proud owner of a Pred 80 somthing ....first boat based in the Baldricks . Delivered one Easter .
1- st whinged constantly at the 800 L / hr fuel bill .
2 - get this wife did not like the sound of the wave lapping in the mid cabin . couldn’t sleep .
Results offloaded by the end of the season .
They had never slept on a boat before !!
When they came to join us they put themselves up in hotel .

So spec ing teak side decks of presume a dealer stock boat or demo late on , and agreeing a price on Thursday, money hitting the dealers account Friday pm , trades men turning up Monday , wood veneers a Tuesday, and sauntering down the following Sat Am ( when not working ) for hand over oblivious the the workmanship is these day to me totally normal .

 

[henryf]

On our later P50 Mk 3 the ram attaches to the vertical transom wall but lower down closer to the bathing platform compared to the video on the previous page.

This will reduce loading due to the increased distance between the passerelle hinge and the foot of the ram. It also means you are spreading the load a bit more near a stronger right angle section as opposed to the middle of a large panel.

I’m trying to post a picture of our stern from this phone.

Henry

 

[henryf]

Not a great image as it’s been enlarged but hopefully shows mounting. Mounting plate is fixed into vertical wall from memory but resting on bathing platform base so supported from 2 directions.

 

[MapisM]

The plot thickens. Was your passerelle factory fitted, H?
The pic below shows the stern of the OP boat (I hope he doesn't mind me posting it, I just found it in his delivery trip thread), and it looks just about the same.
So, if it's OEM in henryf boat, maybe it is also in James' one.
In which case, he's completely right in being p'd off with the builder: cracking the support with a 160Kg load on a 450Kg rated passerelle is unjustifiable regardless of boat age.

I must also say, having in mind how my 350Kg rated passerelle and its support looks like, that a 450Kg capacity for that thing sounds totally unreal, judging by its look. But of course, this is just by the by - if that's what it says on the tin, that's what it should deliver.

 

[J12345T]

Hi All,

Thanks for posting the pic Mapis. It looks very similar to Henryf's and given the boat prior to my purchase was 1 owner from new delivered to LaNap and then used for Princess' photo advertising material (with the passerelle fitted) I can only assume it was factory fitted. BTW pretty much every 'stock' advertising photo and film footage of the P50/3 is actually my boat Laser..

Also, to be clear I have already replaced all the teak with Marinedeck and all the substrate was checked and repaired where necessary prior to refitting the decking. There were no issues with the swim platform. The only issues were in the cockpit sole.

So this isn't about the teak per se. It is about the strength of the swim platform and the fact that it can't support the passerelle lifting a tender. I find myself being very annoyed at this.

I have seen one other pic (youtube video link earlier in this thread) where the ram is connected back to the transom. Not sure which is factory standard. Maybe Henryf can shed some light?

Cheers,

James.

P.S. I should also say that the problem with the teak was not that it was old but that it allowed water to leak into the concealed engine room hatch (yup the one hidden under the teak) and into the machinery space...

 

[Boat2016]

At risk of sounding cynic, that's what he deserves.
Leaving aside the fact that deciding to spend a substantial amount of money just for making the boat more posh and less functional is a nonsense (I appreciate that this is a personal opinion), commissioning such a critical job and not going to check how it's done is beyond optimistic.
Darwinian theory in action!

Sorry but don’t agree, why do you think he got what he deserves for trusting a professional in an area that he didn’t understand ? that’s why a lot of people trust the so called professionals because they don’t know themselves. As for not wanting teak yourself it doesn’t mean that many others share that view, I personally prefer Flexiteek but don’t have an issue with anyone else who prefers the real thing or even bare GRP.

 

[Portofino]

Ok let’s move away from water ingress into the core of the BP over time weakening the structure.
That’s number 1 aetiology in the weakness and my post was how .....a teak replacement but someone peppering the BP with holes which over time leak .

How about this .
Core is not breached all is well structural wise .But due the leverage the short L from the pivot point and the vertical aspect of the ram .
And the fact it’s not been up over flat inclinations much until the tender lift ......the pivot or hinge is semi ceased.
So all that powerful ram force instead of lifting the thing it’s jammed and the foots gone down through the perfectly OEM BP which can’t obviously take 450 Kg of thrust on a patch the size of two hands .

I took my hinge / pivot apart this summer and cleaned and lubed it all on a spare day with an engineer mate ( guest ) after he suggested it while we were sunbathing on day .