PC Nautic Teller Pilot Review

[mogmog2]

I've only tried the Raymarine for a very short time on someone else's boat. I find the PCNautic easy in practice. One tap to tweak the course a degree and one long for a bigger change seems pretty straightforward and I don't really think about it. I don't have a remote for it yet, though. I thought some of the remote mode/button combinations didn't look so easy.

Thanks. I suspect it's not exactly terrible, but we're very used to the RM setup. Also, I recall reading that an increasingly long press also increased the increase increment and had visions of it being a bit like adjusting the oven clock, and we know how well that goes .
I'm currently mulling the feasibility of a 4" resistive screen with buttons on as a control unit. That'd overcome the backlighting problem - the biggest flaw with the RM head unit. I haven't seen it mentioned whether the Pcnautic one is lit.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Thanks. I suspect it's not exactly terrible, but we're very used to the RM setup. Also, I recall reading that an increasingly long press also increased the increase increment and had visions of it being a bit like adjusting the oven clock, and we know how well that goes .
I'm currently mulling the feasibility of a 4" resistive screen with buttons on as a control unit. That'd overcome the backlighting problem - the biggest flaw with the RM head unit. I haven't seen it mentioned whether the Pcnautic one is lit.

You're welcome. I can definitely confirm that it doesn't seem to have a weird long-press oven-clockish behaviour...

(and in unrelated news, my oven has been disconnected from electricity for years and none of its buttons survive, I'm sure this is a coincidence)

...anyway, the basic head unit doesn't do anything strange or confusing as far as I can tell. At the start and end of most trips I use it to trundle up and down a fairly narrow channel with a subtle curve to it while I'm getting stuff ready / putting it away / getting the icemaker on and it copes easily with the succession of tweaks needed to do that nicely and the occasional bigger jump when a coaster or motorboat turns up. I'm sure there are other ways of doing this but it's easy enough as is.

It does have a backlight, but I haven't really used this a lot yet as the backlight on my depth sounder went on the fritz this year and I don't like the east coast in the dark with no depth sounder all that much. It is blue and buried in menu presses which is not ideal, but I can live with it so far.

Your bigger screen unit sounds like a cool idea. I would try something like that, one day, maybe.

 

[Minerva]

You're welcome. I can definitely confirm that it doesn't seem to have a weird long-press oven-clockish behaviour...

(and in unrelated news, my oven has been disconnected from electricity for years and none of its buttons survive, I'm sure this is a coincidence)

...anyway, the basic head unit doesn't do anything strange or confusing as far as I can tell. At the start and end of most trips I use it to trundle up and down a fairly narrow channel with a subtle curve to it while I'm getting stuff ready / putting it away / getting the icemaker on and it copes easily with the succession of tweaks needed to do that nicely and the occasional bigger jump when a coaster or motorboat turns up. I'm sure there are other ways of doing this but it's easy enough as is.

It does have a backlight, but I haven't really used this a lot yet as the backlight on my depth sounder went on the fritz this year and I don't like the east coast in the dark with no depth sounder all that much. It is blue and buried in menu presses which is not ideal, but I can live with it so far.

Your bigger screen unit sounds like a cool idea. I would try something like that, one day, maybe.

Sorry - your ICE MAKER?!?!

Are you sailing a pelagic fishing boat, or do you just serve perfect g&t’s?

 

[justanothersailboat]

Sorry - your ICE MAKER?!?!

Are you sailing a pelagic fishing boat, or do you just serve perfect g&t’s?

G&Ts. I do a lot of days and weekends and not much longer stuff (thanks to work) and it was a lot easier than fitting a fridge and suits my power budget better. (no shorepower and not much room for solar).

Incidentally the PCNautic is pleasingly frugal on the amps too.

 

[mogmog2]

You're welcome. I can definitely confirm that it doesn't seem to have a weird long-press oven-clockish behaviour...

(and in unrelated news, my oven has been disconnected from electricity for years and none of its buttons survive, I'm sure this is a coincidence)

...anyway, the basic head unit doesn't do anything strange or confusing as far as I can tell. At the start and end of most trips I use it to trundle up and down a fairly narrow channel with a subtle curve to it while I'm getting stuff ready / putting it away / getting the icemaker on and it copes easily with the succession of tweaks needed to do that nicely and the occasional bigger jump when a coaster or motorboat turns up. I'm sure there are other ways of doing this but it's easy enough as is.

It does have a backlight, but I haven't really used this a lot yet as the backlight on my depth sounder went on the fritz this year and I don't like the east coast in the dark with no depth sounder all that much. It is blue and buried in menu presses which is not ideal, but I can live with it so far.

Your bigger screen unit sounds like a cool idea. I would try something like that, one day, maybe.

Thanks. That sounds ok, would be just a matter of adjusting to those buttons.
Useful to know about the backlight too.
I did email them with a question about the plus version and they were pretty responsive, which is also encouraging.
I can understand your reticence WRT the east coast, I helped deliver a yacht from Bradwell and navigating through the Thames banks there, in daylight was tense enough

 

[dgadee]

Just buying a linear drive off AliExpress. Not sure whether 55mm per second is too fast? 400N at 55mm per second or 800N at 26mm per second? Speed over power? I think speed but thought I would ask. ...

PS; tiller travel is about 300mm

 

[KompetentKrew]

Just buying a linear drive off AliExpress. Not sure whether 55mm per second is too fast? 400N at 55mm per second or 800N at 26mm per second? Speed over power? I think speed but thought I would ask. ...

PS; tiller travel is about 300mm

Looking at this PDF datasheet, I think you should find that the model with lowest reduction ratio, i.e. the fastest travel, has a max load of 200N. This is what Pelagic sold me, and that I ordered subsequently.

A stroke length of 25cm is a drop-in replacement for Raymarine's Q047 tiller drive. Again, this is what Pelagic was selling last time I checked, about 5 years ago.

You may also need to be careful of orientation of some components:

I believe this is the version I ended up ordering

This is the potentiometer version, so can provide rudder feedback like the €300 M81105) to a Raymarine SmartPilot or Evolution autopilot.
​

 

[dgadee]

I've gone for stroke 350mm, 12V, 400N 55mm from HAKIWO. It is to fit the setup for a TP32 tiller drive. I have another one I bought for the 30 footer from PCNautic which was a direct replacement for the QO47 but they extended it for me (pivot was on the side deck). Works well, but the price difference now makes sense to buy from China direct.

I have ordered a bracket, but can't see anything stainless. Not sure what I am going to get.

PS: the arm frequently pops out of the pin on the tiller with the PCNautic. I think I will have to add some means of keeping it in place.

 

[justanothersailboat]

The one PCNautic buy in is, I'm sure, quite a bit faster than 26mm per second once up to speed. So I think the faster one was the right choice.

I had the "pin pop out" problem and it turned out to be misalignment. I thought it was good enough but it wasn't. Better positioning of the pin bracket on the tiller sorted it, the positioning tolerance is quite small. Fine now. I wouldn't want any obstacles to quickly removing the servo if I have to.

 

[dgadee]

The one PCNautic buy in is, I'm sure, quite a bit faster than 26mm per second once up to speed. So I think the faster one was the right choice.

I had the "pin pop out" problem and it turned out to be misalignment. I thought it was good enough but it wasn't. Better positioning of the pin bracket on the tiller sorted it, the positioning tolerance is quite small. Fine now. I wouldn't want any obstacles to quickly removing the servo if I have to.

Was just thinking of a piece of elastic which could be pulled off.

It all runs from PyPilot and works well apart from that pop out issue.

 

[KompetentKrew]

The one PCNautic buy in is, I'm sure, quite a bit faster than 26mm per second once up to speed.

Sorry I didn't stipulate the make and model number in my comment above, but the OEM for most Pelagic and PC Nautic tiller pilot actuators is Wuxi Hongba or, to give it its full name, the Wuxi Hongba Mechanical Electrical Equipment Co. Ltd.

Model number of the actuator is HB-DJ809, the PDF datasheet for which I linked to earlier today.

These photos on PC Nautoc's site are very clearly an HB-DJ809: Pcnautic Bare Tiller Drive

I think there may be another model they've been packaging, but the HB-DJ809 described is very capable. I've crossed Biscay with one.

 

[dgadee]

I couldn't find that particular model for sale as an individual piece. The one I ordered may be a rebadge. Reviews seemed ok.

 

[fredrussell]

I couldn't find that particular model for sale as an individual piece. The one I ordered may be a rebadge. Reviews seemed ok.

The thing I found when seeking a spare ram was that all of them have a maximum amount of torque in relation to speed of movement. You can have a very fast operating ram, but then it’ll have very little torque, and vice versa obviously. I wanted to mount my ram much closer to tiller pivot point to speed up the hard over time (which is the holy grail on a frisky sporty sort of boat like mine) and the generic AliExpress ram with equal torque/speed figures to the Raymarine/ Wuxi ones is just man enough for the task. Just. I’ve now bought a Raymarine linear drive which has masses more power, which I will mount below decks with a chunky Bowden cable type of thing to tiller (no quadrant on my boat). Obviously this’ll use more power but should be about as effective as you’ll get a non-quadrant tiller steered boat to steer itself. To be honest, the Ev100 with generic ALIexpress ram is pretty bloody impressive- I’m just the sort of idiot that can’t stop fiddling with stuff.

 

[dgadee]

I would hope your Raymarine drive (£1700) would be more powerful than my AliExpress (£53) one. If mine doesn't work I can toss it, but the one from PCNautic has worked well, so we will see. I plan to have two on board - the TP32 off the network, and the AliExpress one standalone.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I would hope your Raymarine drive (£1700) would be more powerful than my AliExpress (£53) one. If mine doesn't work I can toss it, but the one from PCNautic has worked well, so we will see. I plan to have two on board - the TP32 off the network, and the AliExpress one standalone.

The Q047 is £725 and is no more impressive than the WX Hongba ram.

A 12v motor of about 3.5cm in diameter, 5.5cm long - Raymarine aren't going to be able to get more out of that than anyone else.

I bet there are more powerful 12v generic electrical suitable for building a decent below decks autopilot with, just no-one's publicised them yet. The tiller pilot was relatively easy because it requires no clutch.

 

[dgadee]

The Q047 is £725 and is no more impressive than the WX Hongba ram.

A 12v motor of about 3.5cm in diameter, 5.5cm long - Raymarine aren't going to be able to get more out of that than anyone else.

I bet there are more powerful 12v generic electrical suitable for building a decent below decks autopilot with, just no-one's publicised them yet. The tiller pilot was relatively easy because it requires no clutch.

If only there was an alternative to the Raymarine Wheelpiilot drive. Total rubbish.

 

[fredrussell]

…I bet there are more powerful 12v generic electrical suitable for building a decent below decks autopilot with, just no-one's publicised them yet…

I’m sure that’s true, and probably for a lot less than the £2k Raymarine charges for their Linear Drive. I sourced a cheap second hand one.

 

[mogmog2]

I've had my eye on the Pcnautic unit for a good while now and the time could be near.
Our new boat came with a new st2000 and our unsold boat has an st4000 (which we liked, but lacks the enhancements offered by rudder feedback). I had thought about swapping them over, but seeing the sold prices of the st4000 components on eBay, I'm minded to remove that from the Centaur and put the st2000 on there - or just sell that too. That'd pretty much cover the Pcnautic .
I haven't totally let go of building my own as it's just a packaged Pypilot, but they do have a presentable control unit
The ram used by pcnautic is identified on either the Openboat project site or Segeln forum IIRC, but I can't find it again ATM.

 

[mrming]

Slight thread drift but I wonder if any of the autopilot experts could confirm. I use a Raymarine EV-100 set up with their above deck ram. It all works fine for me, however I see references in the documentation to a rudder angle sensor. In a case like mine, with an above deck ram connected directly to the tiller, and no play in the steering, am I right in thinking that a rudder angle sensor could not possibly provide any additional info?

 

[mogmog2]

Slight thread drift but I wonder if any of the autopilot experts could confirm. I use a Raymarine EV-100 set up with their above deck ram. It all works fine for me, however I see references in the documentation to a rudder angle sensor. In a case like mine, with an above deck ram connected directly to the tiller, and no play in the steering, am I right in thinking that a rudder angle sensor could not possibly provide any additional info?

Interesting. I thought (assumed) the PCNautic unit used that info as part of its calculations but it quite possibly doesn't - I haven't looked into it properly yet, maybe one needs an NKE level system to do that? Going to investigate...