Paying for the boat

Greg2 said:
When you look into this it is unbelievably difficult to effect a secure means of payment. When we sold our last boat we discovered that neither bankers drafts nor personal cheques are irrecoverable nor are direct transfers. The cash suggestion isn't as daft as it sounds.....
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Just a suggestion... last boat I sold & bought involved quite large sums and were private transactions - so the usual worries apply. I solved all probs by using my solicitor to handle the payment direct to the sellers solicitor (and vice versa when I was selling)

Pros.
Just like buying a house - solicitors have cleared funds and in theory transfers between the 2 solicitors is guaranteed.
Complies with money laundering regs
Cons.
Cost me #100 - reasonable value for complete peace of mind
 
oGaryo said:
Have come up with a slight problem with taking ownership of the new boat... Finding a way of paying the seller on the day (a Saturday) seems a little challenging to say the least.. Nowt to do with the seller who's been nothing but accommodating, it's getting money from one bank to another expeditiously and reliably seems nigh on impossible..

Options pursued and discounted thus far:

1.. fast transfer from my building society: £1K limit so no good.
2.. standard electronic transfer: £10K limit and not same day transfer so no good.
3.. CHAPs payment.. not possible on a Saturday so again, not good.
4.. Building Society cheque.. receiving bank has advised seller it's not secure and won't clear until the following Thursday.
5. Paypal.. HUGE costs to the seller so not agreeable

Remaining amount to pay is a tad under £23K and I'd like to find an option where I can effect the money transfer shortly after conducting a final viewing of the boat in the morning when out the water.

Am I trying to find an option that simply doesn't exist and we need to rethink the approach of the handover?

thanks Gary
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Its not that easy to stop a bankers draft. This story is becoming as numb as VAT on boats.
The draft is commonly issued by the local branch, but cannot commonly be cancelled by the local branch; usually it can only be cancelled by a specialist team in head office who are going to need adequate evidence/reasons to cancel the draft.After all, it doesnt have much credence as a product otherwise. And it has their name on it, remember, not yours.I am omitting dodgy dealings and old dated drafts from Nigeria, or wherever for a moment,ok.
Secondly, most of us do not happen to have a thick wad of fraudulent bankers drafts in a drawer at home for those occasions we decide to defraud someone.
Otherwise, just do it on Monday if it means everyone can sleep better.

FPS is 24/7, all other Uk bank clearing is Monday to Friday, so you dont have alot of choices on a Saturday !
 
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How about internet banking?

I regularly transfer money from a Lloyds TSB account to a Royal Bank of Scotland account by internet banking.

The money transfers usually in less than a minute and is there showing in my RBS account as quick as I can log on after the transfer.

And I often transfer money on weekends or evenings when the bank is shut, and still the transfer seems to happen straight away.

I guess th eonly problem might be a limit on ammount. I must confess to never having tried to transfer £23K :)
 
When I boat my boat from a private seller, I did the transfer on a Friday and picked the boat up on the Saturday. As the seller wasn't going to be home when I collected it, he left the key to the trailer wheel clamp under a flower pot, and I left the wheel clamp round the side of his house when I left.

Maybe we were a bit more trusting of each other than you and your seller?
 
ProDave said:
How about internet banking?

I regularly transfer money from a Lloyds TSB account to a Royal Bank of Scotland account by internet banking.

The money transfers usually in less than a minute and is there showing in my RBS account as quick as I can log on after the transfer.

And I often transfer money on weekends or evenings when the bank is shut, and still the transfer seems to happen straight away.

I guess th eonly problem might be a limit on ammount. I must confess to never having tried to transfer £23K :)
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Internet banking isnt a payment system.. its connectivity into your bank. Most banks are now on FPS, and the current single payment limit is £10k per transaction. How many transactions of £10k you may make a day is up to your bank.
Although JFM suggests there is a risk on multiple payments, the system payment schedule between the banks is two minutes, so it would be a pretty small risk in making multiple payments- if you can do so.. The maximum time is two hours ( money laundering checks etc).
 
As a seller, I wouldnt accept a bankers draft or cash. If you walk into a bank with £23k worth of cash you are going to have difficulty getting them to accept it under the latest anti-money laundering regs. Bankers drafts are faked and can be rejected by the bank many days after presentation. I had a bankers draft presented to my business a couple of years ago which was rejected after 10 days. Luckily I had already smelt a rat and made excuses for not shipping the goods until I was absolutely sure about the draft.
Maybe your seller will be more accomodating than I would be but I think you've only got 2 options if you want the boat for Saturday. Either transfer the money on Friday and risk that the boat is not 100% or transfer part of the balance owing and pay the rest in cash on Saturday. Banks will generally accept sums less than £10k so you could transfer £14k on Friday and pay the outstanding £9k in cash after you've seen the boat. Probably the safest thing to do of course is to view the boat and transfer the balance on Monday
 
Deleted User said:
As a seller, I wouldnt accept a bankers draft or cash. If you walk into a bank with £23k worth of cash you are going to have difficulty getting them to accept it under the latest anti-money laundering regs. Bankers drafts are faked and can be rejected by the bank many days after presentation. I had a bankers draft presented to my business a couple of years ago which was rejected after 10 days. Luckily I had already smelt a rat and made excuses for not shipping the goods until I was absolutely sure about the draft.
Maybe your seller will be more accomodating than I would be but I think you've only got 2 options if you want the boat for Saturday. Either transfer the money on Friday and risk that the boat is not 100% or transfer part of the balance owing and pay the rest in cash on Saturday. Banks will generally accept sums less than £10k so you could transfer £14k on Friday and pay the outstanding £9k in cash after you've seen the boat. Probably the safest thing to do of course is to view the boat and transfer the balance on Monday
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I dont think anyone is going to suggest that fraud isnt possible using a bankers draft. That £10 note in your wallet might be fake to, and the £100 certainly is ;)
Its important to look at the circumstances and associated risks of the transaction, and make up your own mind. I simply suggest that there is alot of the usual foggy armchair thinking on the topic, with little actual knowledge.
(Not saying you, Mike!)
Now, about VAT....
 
gjgm said:
I dont think anyone is going to suggest that fraud isnt possible using a bankers draft. That £10 note in your wallet might be fake to, and the £100 certainly is ;)
Its important to look at the circumstances and associated risks of the transaction, and make up your own mind. I simply suggest that there is alot of the usual foggy armchair thinking on the topic, with little actual knowledge.
(Not saying you, Mike!)
Now, about VAT....
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Obviously in any transaction you have to take a view on the probity of the buyer and the likelihood that he might attempt to defraud you and whether the sum of money involved is worth the risk. I was just saying that I personally would not accept a £23k bank draft from any person I didn't know very well and I would not hand over the keys to my boat if somebody I didn't know very well presented me with one. Unfortunately, many years of running my own business has taught me to be ultra cautious about how I accept payments, especially in the current economic climate. And the same goes for buying boats without VAT documents as far as I'm concerned. Basically my attitude is why take the risk if you dont have to
 
Deleted User said:
Basically my attitude is why take the risk if you dont have to
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Because there are few possibilities to making a payment on a Saturday!
Fine, if they are not happy, move to a banking day, I agree.
But while there are risks in bankers drafts, I would like folk to be informed as to what those really are, and not hearsay.
EDIT: For absolute security, note that although funds may be credited to your account, it can be 6 days before they are truly cleared, after which time you can only be pursued for a return if fraud is suspected. There is more info here for those who wish to be more familiar with the potential risks. Note though, this is addressing counterfeit,theft risks etc, so against that background, you need to assess that likelihood anyway.
http://www.chequeandcredit.co.uk/246/-/page/cheque-checker/
 
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What about a Wire Transfer. This costs about £35, and guarantees tranfers of funds. I have used this process several times to pay for stuff, including Rafiki.

You need to go into a branch to sort this out. It takes about 15 minutes. You need some info from the other party, but if you call the branch first they will tell you (IBAN no etc).
 
Many years ago when Ford RS turbo's were current a friend accepted a bankers draft as payment for the car, the draft turned out to be stolen. As he had handed over the keys (in good faith) the insurance company refused to pay out. A couple of years later the police caught up with the fraudster and he was talken to court and ordered to pay back £5 a month. My friend never saw a penny.
 
Be careful of cash payments to sellers. It has been know for the buyer to be nobbled of his hard earned cash just prior to the transaction. It has happened a few times with car buying.
David
 
rafiki_ said:
What about a Wire Transfer. This costs about £35, and guarantees tranfers of funds. I have used this process several times to pay for stuff, including Rafiki.

You need to go into a branch to sort this out. It takes about 15 minutes. You need some info from the other party, but if you call the branch first they will tell you (IBAN no etc).
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As I mentioned FPS is the only 24/7 payment system ( between supporting banks), so your idea wont work on a Saturday.
 
rafiki_ said:
And the transaction has to occur on a Saturday?
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HAS to.. I dont know, but the OP says in his first post that he is trying to buy the boat on a Saturday- hence the discussion of options.
Otherwise, yes, a CHAPS payment would be very simple and sensible on a weekday!
 
Hi Gary,
We recently changed our car and had the very same problem, how to pay the vendor on day of purchase, Saturday (funny enough £23k).

A word of caution, do not rely on Chaps transfer, having been to my own branch on the previous day, Friday, and transfered the money to the vendors account, having signed the transfer document which even gave a transfer reference number, the vendor stated the funds were not in his account!!!!

Trouble was the banks were all now closed (HSBC), no counter service at any HSBC on a Saturday, no way to get at money.
Called telephone banking service who said they couldn't help until the branch reopened on Monday morning.
Not happy at the situation as it was their mistake we tried all ways to get the money transfered.

So here's how you can do it, £10k is the limit you can transfer electronically, however this is per account, so split the £23k between accounts, transfer £10k from 2 separate accounts and £3k from another, or withdraw £3k and pay it into the vendors account at any branch of their bank.

If you don't have two accounts then open another with the same bank today (via internet) and transfer £10k into it from your other account, come tomorrow (Saturday) you will be able to transfer £10k from each!

No transfer fee's or hassle.
Hope the handover goes smoothly, guess it's time to get excited again!
 
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Thanks Guys, I think all this has put me in the position to open some dialgoue with the seller to rearrange pickup for the Monday... I'll just have to temper the enthusiasm for a couple more days and rearrange the boat storage arrnagements... am off all that week so no big shakes

thanks again, excellent advice and debate as usual:cool:
 
"Its only a worry if you are not used to handling it."


Quite - people seem to be frightened today of using/handling hard cash. Various things we (I and SWMBO'd) have done have involved handling reasonable lumps of 'readies' and 10/15k a couple of times a week wasn't unusual. (and this is going back over 15/20years - when it was worth a lot more!!) I think unfamiliarity is half of the problem.
 
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