Paying for my new boat this weekend

[DoughMyDays]

Hi Chaps.

Sorry I know this has probably been asked a dozen times. But after 4 months of visits and negotiations. I am ready to purchase my boat this weekend.

However, just one thing the seller asked (Which doesnt seem suspicious for any reason) is if the transfer of the money can be done by next Saturday so he has the money and in a position to hand over the keys.

I already asked the bank what is to say he runs off and the boat vanishes, they could not really offer me a straight answer on getting my money back or not.

The chap is well known for good reasons. I asked around about him many months ago and the chap who currently runs the boat complex it is moored on says hes a sound guy and has known him for a long time.

There were jobs that needed doing for a few months, so I went down to where the boat was the weekend just gone (Not to check on the owner but for a day out) and the chap was actually there in front of me in the middle of finishing the jobs he said he would do before the sale went through.

He did not get a bill of sale from the previous owner but can provide proof with receipts etc. Is this normal to ask for the money a bit before the actual handover? This is my first boat purchase so I am always that 1% doubt still in my mind.

I have already had a full survey done a few months back too which all turned out mostly sound.

Would it be unusual if I offered to just bring cash on the day?

 

[Aardee]

The last time I bought a boat without having a broker involved I met the seller at a local pub and did the bank transfer "live" using my banking app and he handed over the keys and we completed the paperwork. In your case a lot depends on the amount of money concerned (the fact you mentioned bringing cash makes me think it's not in the tens of thousands).

 

[Dellquay13]

I have bought many boats over the years with cash, up to £8000, for instant handover. I don't know how common it is to pay cash for much more expensive boats. Boats of a certain age and price range often have very little official documentation or previous Bills of Sale.
If I was paying cash now, and it was considerably more than just a couple of thousand then I would take a few precautions.
Is the boat on the MCA part 1 register? If so, the current owner(s) is listed, and possibly any marine mortgage still outstanding. If it is on the part3 Small Ships Register (SSR number on the boat) the owner should have a certificate with their name and the boat name.
I would want to see solid photo id of the vendor like a drivers licence, and i would want the name and address to match your bill of sale.
I would want a bill of sale signed in front of me and witnessed by the chap from the complex who says he knows him.
I would want instant handover.
If I was keeping the boat at the same place, at least temporarily, I would want the person in charge of the complex, who also is the witness, to complete a legal contract for mooring/storage in my name from that point on.
Any old receipts in the vendors name showing history of ownership would help me to feel confident too.
Bank transfers can be very quick to send and confirm receipt, so there is every chance you could arrange one for the day of handover, get all the paperwork ready to go, do the transfer and confirmation from the both banks in front of the boat, and do an instant handover.
I believe a bill pf sale template from the Maritime and Coastguard agency msf 4705 rev9/09 can be downloaded

 

[searocket]

It is quite normal to have funds in advance, there is no issue with this providing there is a signed contract. The RYA have a bill of sale and a contract document. The contract would be done first - which is a legally binding document, once that is signed the funds can be transferred and the bill of sale confirms receipt of the funds and transfer of ownership. This is more convenient than having the hassle of transferring funds on the day the keys are being picked up. Electronic transfers have a habit of not going through prompty when you want them to and banks tend not to be very helpful in tracking them.
I would not be very happy about having cash payment for a boat.
Recommend you see all the documentation in advance of signing a contract.
Don't forget insurance.

 

[DoughMyDays]

It is over 12k but below 16k so I think cash will be out of the question.

I think I will do the transfer on the day I am with the boat in that case and not a day before. The boat is staying where it is on the current mooring. The existing mooring was already transfered to me and it now in my name along with my mooring number receipt and sticker.

I dont think there is anything unusual about the fella by now. But I would prefer to pay him there and then and not a day before if im being honest.

The boat year is 1994

He has old receipts showing previous and current proof of ownership. He said for the banki transfer he would be more than happy to generate a receipt before any money transfer. Is this some sort of receipt he gets from his bank?

 

[Never Grumble]

I used the RYA contract. If the vendor doesn't provide all their details then you might want to ask yourself why. If you are still unsure about the vendor once you have their address then you could always look them up on land registry ... if they own their own house at least then you know they have some assets if you need to sue them.

 

[Dellquay13]

the rya contract and BoS sounds a good option, and the moorings manager or office staff would be a trustworthy witness if they have been dealing commercially with the vendor prior to the sale. If they have allowed you to take on a moorings agreement along with ownership of the boat, then they must be of the opinion that the boat is the vendors to sell.
I imagine an advance receipt from the vendor would have no connection to his bank, and a properly witnessed contract of sale like the RYA one would be better. The point of their witness is it has to be someone that you trust to be reliable.
Land registry, Polling register, and photo id. there are ways of seeing if a person is real.

 

[DoughMyDays]

Thanks chaps. I have downloaded the RYA contract and will bring it with me for us to go through before any money transfers anywhere. Yes I think the office staff are good, it was actually the who runs the complex who actually told me himself about the boat the guy was selling and them who sorted and transfered the mooring to me from him.

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks chaps. I have downloaded the RYA contract and will bring it with me for us to go through before any money transfers anywhere. Yes I think the office staff are good, it was actually the who runs the complex who actually told me himself about the boat the guy was selling and them who sorted and transfered the mooring to me from him.

A bank draft is always a good alternative to cash and should be acceptable to the seller. I'm not up to date with costs but I would have thought not more than £20 for the amount you require.

 

[Dukester52]

It is over 12k but below 16k so I think cash will be out of the question.

I think I will do the transfer on the day

Just on this - I recently made a transfer for a large purchase and was surprised the bank had VASTLY reduced the limit I could transfer via the mobile app... you might want to check before you rely on your mobile app...

 

[Tranona]

Probably don't need a contract at this point as you have already agreed terms and are accepting the boat. The important bit of paper is the Bill of Sale which transfers ownership to you and becomes your title to the asset. would be good to have all the previous paperwork trail as well. The normal procedure is for him to bring all the paperwork, including mooring receipts if the mooring is part of the deal, any old service records, guarantees etc and when you are satisfied you have everything, make the transfer and the boat is yours. Make sure you have it insured before you take it over.

 

[langstonelayabout]

The last time I bought a boat without having a broker involved I met the seller at a local pub and did the bank transfer "live" using my banking app and he handed over the keys and we completed the paperwork. In your case a lot depends on the amount of money concerned (the fact you mentioned bringing cash makes me think it's not in the tens of thousands).

The last time I sold a boat the actual exchange was done 'live' using the buyer's IT in the boatyard's coffee shop, me calling my bank to confirm the funds had arrived and me giving the new owner the keys and documentation, all of which he'd previously inspected and had been available to his surveyor. This was with the boat sale being in the tens of thousands.

It did seem to mitigate the risks to all in our IT-enabled generation although he did send a 'test £10' from his account to mine to check all was well.

He's still the happy ovwner some years later nd there were no problems with the payment. Well, it worked for us

 

[DoughMyDays]

he last time I sold a boat the actual exchange was done 'live' using the buyer's IT in the boatyard's coffee shop, me calling my bank to confirm the funds had arrived and me giving the new owner the keys and documentation, all of which he'd previously inspected and had been available to his surveyor. This was with the boat sale being in the tens of thousands.

It did seem to mitigate the risks to all in our IT-enabled generation although he did send a 'test £10' from his account to mine to check all was well.

He's still the happy ovwner some years later nd there were no problems with the payment. Well, it worked for us

Thats very reassuring to know. Everything about this seems fine and I have no suspicions, but because this is my first boat and that amount of money, there is still that 1% doubt in my mind of what if.....

I think what i will do, is let him know I will tranfer £20 or so into his account to check he gets it, then make the transfer on the day, then he hands me over the keys. He has plenty of documentation but no actualy copy of the bill of sale. I have downloaded a deed of transfer one from the government website, once we fill that in and exchange, then I think the money can be transfered? Does this sound reasonable?

I honestly think its all fine, plus plenty and including the marina owner has strognyl vouched for him. But something from my end just seems a little hesitent to make such a big money transfer without me actually being there..

 

[Tranona]

Good plan to do the small transfer first. Use the Bill of Sale from the RYA site. This is the simplest and best accepted form as it is specific to yachts.

Hope it all goes well on the day.

 

[Seastoke]

Have you asked if he has finance on I.

 

[DoughMyDays]

Have you asked if he has finance on I.

Yes it was one of the first things i asked. He said he has receipts etc as proof of purchase.

I phoned the marine agency but they found it hard to check as i could only give them the registered name of the boat and not any ssr or reg number so that couldn't really tell me.

 

[V1701]

It may be that you can only add a new beneficiary/recipient by logging in to your account via the bank's web site on a PC, so if you intend to make the transfer via an app on your phone I would do that in advance. The amount it's possible to transfer may also come into play. Hope it all goes well & congrats on your new boat...

 

[Tranona]

There is no reliable way of checking finance on a boat as no independent records are kept. However in reality very few boats have finance secured against them, particularly at lower values. If a bank or finance house does lend with the boat as security it is normal to register a mortgage against a Part 1 registered boat or to hold the Bill of Sale (which is the title to the boat) and other key documents such as VAT evidence as security. Lenders normally only offer secured finance against higher value, newer boats so anybody looking to buy in that market would do due diligence before agreeing to buy, let alone paying any money!

 

[crown22]

It is over 12k but below 16k so I think cash will be out of the question.

I think I will do the transfer on the day I am with the boat in that case and not a day before. The boat is staying where it is on the current mooring. The existing mooring was already transfered to me and it now in my name along with my mooring number receipt and sticker.

I dont think there is anything unusual about the fella by now. But I would prefer to pay him there and then and not a day before if im being honest.

The boat year is 1994

He has old receipts showing previous and current proof of ownership. He said for the banki transfer he would be more than happy to generate a receipt before any money transfer. Is this some sort of receipt he gets from his bank?

After being bitten before I would want money off if the seller can't produce the original VAT invoice from 1994

 

[Jamie Dundee]

As above, check your bank’s limit on transfers. I’m with Lloyds and had to pay for my boat in two instalments as they have a 20k limit per day on BACS.