Passage Planning : When to leave?

[wipe_out]

Not really a major "voyage" but the plan is to move the boat from Littlehampton to Poole in Saturday (if the weather forecast improves because right now its not looking to good)..

Wanting to run with the tide so I get a few miles free and can get past Hurst Point at a good time.. I have been told it can get pretty horrible past Hurst Point at the wrong time.. So looking at the tide times HW in Littlehampton is 06:45 and LW at 12:46 and in Poole HW is 08:11 and LW is 11:40.. Should take about 4-5 hours for the trip..

So based on that when would be the best time to leave LittleHampton for the best run down to Poole?

 

[gjgm]

Hurst should be OK;stay very close in to the castle, it is plenty deep. What next depends on the sea state. If it might be a bit lumpy, swing right round along the shingle beach for a bit. It the sea looks ok and you have enough water, you can just head straight for Poole from the castle- just stay off the banks !
Otherwise.. there are more lobster pots than you might think, especially off the edge of Christchurch ledge (which itself can get a bit lousy). There are two channels into Poole. If you decide to play safe and use the main channel, the start of it is quite a long way out, so don't head for the harbour mouth or you will be way off !
Poole Bay can get quite lively seas...

 

[wipe_out]

Hurst should be OK;stay very close in to the castle, it is plenty deep. What next depends on the sea state. If it might be a bit lumpy, swing right round along the shingle beach for a bit. It the sea looks ok and you have enough water, you can just head straight for Poole from the castle- just stay off the banks !
Otherwise.. there are more lobster pots than you might think, especially off the edge of Christchurch ledge (which itself can get a bit lousy). There are two channels into Poole. If you decide to play safe and use the main channel, the start of it is quite a long way out, so don't head for the harbour mouth or you will be way off !
Poole Bay can get quite lively seas...

Thanks gigm.. I think I have the entrance to Poole worked out and I know where I am going in the harbour thanks to one of the harbour tours a couple of weeks ago..

Will keep an extra keen eye for lobster pots around Christchurch Ledge too..

 

[Nick_H]

The best time to leave depends on wind direction. If the wind is strong from the west, then you don't really want to catch the westbound tide as you'll have wind aginst tide and choppy seas the whole way.

 

[[2068]]

I wouldn't worry about Hurst, so long as you keep close to the castle.

I would worry about the ledge off Hengistbury Head ... I managed to scare myself in the S28 last season by coming in too close, and finding myself surrounded by some quite substantial standing waves mixed in with lobster pots. Daughter adopted a starfish position on the cockpit floor, and Mrs FP was giving me a "what the hell are you doing" look as I wrestled with the throttles.

 

[superheat6k]

I would first of all measure the overall distance along the various grounds tracks to nearest mile or so, add 20% and divide by my average comfortable cruising speed. This gives the outside journey time and expected distance.

Using a fair tide and going faster will get you there early and if you are relying on making a tide gate somewhere earlier is always better.

Then review average tide direction and when the tide will turn foul towards the destination, plus any tidal hieight restrictions at either point of departure or arrival. Now I would aim to arrive at least 1-2 hours before this time, assuming the overall lenth of joiurney is less than one typical tide (e.g. 6 hours), so the departure will then be the journey hours before this ideal arrival time.

Dont' forget to add time for the getting out of the berth, river and past the last mark before you can set your first intended course.

Next consider specifics of the tide - a west-ward journey from Littlehampton to Poole will be fair on an Ebb tide, but then also consider what the wind is doing, as the atypical south westerly will mean wind over tide, but reivew this against forecast wind speed and direction.

Without knowing what your boat is nor cruising speed, it is difficult to be specific.

But here are a few tips that may be of use ...

Tides within 15-20 miles of Portsmouth will turn west ~1.5 hours before HW Portsmouth, and mostly follow a regular 6+ a bit hour each way cycle. The double tide effect is more pronounced mid solent and is due to the jutting out of calshot spit agaisnt the Ebb flow, where it acts as a large scoop just after the ebb proper starts, causing the double stand in Southampton Water and nearby places.

A fair stream through Hurst is not an issue unless in stronger wind over tide conditions, and that is the wind relative to the tide. Below 15 knots and it is quite tame.

The western Solent can be quite nasty above 18-20 knots relative (wind speed plus tide speed) wind over tide.

Just past Hurst, the North channel going behind the Shingles bank is generally quite placid and easy to navigate, but watch for pots.

There is a narrower but still wide enough channel immediately east of Poole entrance, just off the beach which swings round right past Harry;s house - the East Looe Channel, but watch your speed as there is a 10 knot limit throiugh this passage.

Also Poole doesn't really have an established HW time, but does have a pronounced LW, so use this reference and work backwards or forwards from that. On neaps the tides in Poole area are very tame.

As an alternative from your start point you could head south west for St Catherines south of the Owers and leave the Island to stbd. Far more breathtaking from seaward, and not that much further to travel. Give the needles and the Bridge just to their west a fair berth to stbd to before rounding up to head for the fairway buoy off Poole. In any south westerly there are some largish waves in semi permanent residence across the Bridge.

For weather and sea state info I find Windfinder and Weather Outlook very good.

Enjoy your trip.

 

[wipe_out]

Thanks for the replies and thanks superheat6k for so much detail..

Probably should have mentioned the boat is a 26ft cruiser and I would like to cruise at around 21-22kn.. Could go a little faster but figured I would just stay on a plane and enjoy the trip.. I have in my head about 4-5 hours from leaving the berth to arriving and switching off the engine.. I make the distance about 60NM so around 3 hours cruising time in good conditions..

@Flowerpower - Where exactly is the "castle" that has been mentioned? Is that Hurst Castle on the shore? If so why is staying close to it better?

@Superheat6k - You say the tide turns west 1.5h before HW.. When does it turn east again, 1.5h before LW?

Looking at Windfinder it looks like the forecast is more or less wind with tide in the morning (assuming I am reading it right)..

Sorry about the simplistic questions.. This is the first time taking on a trip like this and the longest I have done so far so want to know as much as possible about the route before I head off.. Will have my Dad and Girlfriend on board so need to keep them safe..

 

[gjgm]

Coming into the Solent from the east, it does sometimes get a bit more lively, but within the Solent , you tend to get a rather tiresome short wave length chop. Often alot of large ships, so don't hog the main shipping channels, but then there are alot of shallows, so dont run aground either !
As you approach the western end of the Solent, about 1/4mile inside, you can get some 50-75cm minor overfalls if the tide is that way,but it is only for a very short distance. If you stay well over to the right hand bank (Hurst Castle/Fort), the water is very deep and so almost always, calm. As you come out past the castle, the calmer water tends to be slightly along the shingle bank, and the rougher water more over towards the Needles channel.
So, I would say, don't worry about Hurst.
Poole Bay seems to have an affinity to a swell, and can get a bit lively well off Christchurch Ledge (look at the chart.. it runs way way offshore) Also, you get quite a few fishing boats, and pots, so frankly, I would just swing south of it and save the hassle of playing dodgems. The very entrance into Poole can get a hell of a tide running through and some far old chop and swell with all the boats. Stay out of the way of the chain ferry You biggest challenge on Saturday looks like dodging the rain...

 

[targa31]

Do you have or can you get hold of a chart?

Have a look at the link. Fairly straight forward to plan your trip for going with the tide if the winds are light or slack tide if the wind is up from the west. Defo avoid force 5 and above against the tide. It will be unpleasant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0MHWOsctnI

Learning this will give you a good understanding of why the sea chops up at certain points of your route.

Good luck and enjoy the trip!

 

[RogerRat]

Thanks for the replies and thanks superheat6k for so much detail..

Probably should have mentioned the boat is a 26ft cruiser and I would like to cruise at around 21-22kn.. Could go a little faster but figured I would just stay on a plane and enjoy the trip.. I have in my head about 4-5 hours from leaving the berth to arriving and switching off the engine.. I make the distance about 60NM so around 3 hours cruising time in good conditions..

Thanks for mentioning the size of the boat, 26ft is a significant factor and also that that your Dad and girlfriend will be on board. It sounds like a first time passage and 60 miles is a fair trip for all of us to take on in some of the busiest waters. (above and below)

1. To ensure that everyone enjoys the trip you'll need force 3 winds or less a F4 is where the fun starts in a smaller boat and can give you all the things the new to cruising passengers a real fright that lasts for an hour or two as this will slow you down to possibly even to 10-12 knots.

2. You're not sailing so assisting tidal stream is only a nice help if you get it. A fair 2 knot tidal current is essential on a 5 knot sailing boat but for you, it will always be better to punch the tide if the wind and tide are in the same direction, especially through areas like the Looe channel, your first obstacle!
I know of two 50 foot boats that have been beaten up through here so give it some respect. With wind and tide together, it's almost flat and a very nice passage.

3. If you can take on this trip on a day when the wind is from the North or just very light airs. Everyone will enjoy it more.

4. The track around the south of the Island is lovely, but there are no bail outs' so for this one stay in he Solent as this will give you a chance to stop should weather or boat problems arise.

5. Your track will take you out by Kingsmere rocks and then to an East Cardinal of the Looe channel. This channel is short, only a mile or two but you have to take it to save a long trip around the Pullar Bank off Selsey Bill. Head almost exactly west to Street & Boulder west end red and green end of the channel marks. You must get the wind and tide together here or you will get beaten up and the crew will be revolting in the first hour of your trip.

6. This will take you across the front of the Harbours, Chichester, Langstone and Portsmouth. Check your chart for all dangers to navigation. Especially the submerged barrier just before Portsmouth. There are two marks that you can safely go between but from the East, you might just as well take a track between the forts, it's no further really.

7. All the other replies make good sense to me, but don't let pride get in your way. There is nothing wrong with calling it off and making a stop over in Yarmouth or Lymington before taking on the trip across Poole bay.

The main thing is to enjoy it and careful planning will help this. Also try to get your crew involved and explain what you are doing and why at each leg.

Good luck. :encouragement:

RR.

 

[Chamaerops]

We went to Poole via the North Channel at Hurst a few weeks ago and you can see how close to Hurst you can get in this youtube video.
http://youtu.be/kbpMcRU3aNI

 

[wipe_out]

Thanks again everyone..

@gjgm - Got that noted and plan to swing south of Christchurch Ledge.. By this pint in the trip I am not interested in playing dodgems..

@RogerRat - Yes, this is the first rip of this distance.. Previous longest was about 20NM and it was rough and horrible with slamming all the way so wouldn't want a repeat of that.. Thanks for all the information, I'll look it all up on a chart as I plan my route.. Looking at the weather wind is forecast at F4 gusting F5, wave height at 0.8m at 4s interval and a chance of rain.. If that outlook hasn't improved by tomorrow I will probably call it and line it up for the following weekend.. Want to have an enjoyable trip and even take in some of the scenery as we pass through so no point forcing it and wishing it was over the whole way..

 

[gjgm]

Thanks again everyone..

@gjgm - Got that noted and plan to swing south of Christchurch Ledge.. By this pint in the trip I am not interested in playing dodgems..

@RogerRat - Yes, this is the first rip of this distance.. Previous longest was about 20NM and it was rough and horrible with slamming all the way so wouldn't want a repeat of that.. Thanks for all the information, I'll look it all up on a chart as I plan my route.. Looking at the weather wind is forecast at F4 gusting F5, wave height at 0.8m at 4s interval and a chance of rain.. If that outlook hasn't improved by tomorrow I will probably call it and line it up for the following weekend.. Want to have an enjoyable trip and even take in some of the scenery as we pass through so no point forcing it and wishing it was over the whole way..

Not for this w/end, surely ? Looks more like F2 ?

 

[wipe_out]

Not for this w/end, surely ? Looks more like F2 ?

MetOffice is showing 9-12mph wind with 14-22mph gusts.. So I guess its more like F3 gusting F5.. Windfinder shows the same.. Bigger problem though is the yellow rain waring that has now appeared for Saturday.. Would make it no fun at all..

 

[RogerRat]

Thanks again everyone..

@gjgm - Got that noted and plan to swing south of Christchurch Ledge.. By this point in the trip I am not interested in playing dodgems..

@RogerRat - Yes, this is the first trip of this distance.. Previous longest was about 20NM and it was rough and horrible with slamming all the way so wouldn't want a repeat of that.. Thanks for all the information, I'll look it all up on a chart as I plan my route.. Looking at the weather wind is forecast at F4 gusting F5, wave height at 0.8m at 4s interval and a chance of rain.. If that outlook hasn't improved by tomorrow I will probably call it and line it up for the following weekend.. Want to have an enjoyable trip and even take in some of the scenery as we pass through so no point forcing it and wishing it was over the whole way..

In your boat, most of this is just too much info. A 4s interval doesn't much to most of us in the Solent. Wind and tide does, always try and get them together (running in the same direction) and avoid F4 or the interval will shorten and so will the seas. Wind chop is horrible for most smaller planing boats sub 40ft non deep V. You'll really get to see what I mean off Cowes and Calshot. It's not dangerous at all, just messy.

I always try to plan trips with this in mind simply cos it's more comfortable for you, your crew and your boat.

Btw. Christchurch ledge is nothing to worry about, it's clearly marked but just worth heading out further, it'll be more comfy again and less pots to spot. :encouragement:

Postponing, or diverting to a bolt hole if the weather is not ideal is a sensible choice, don't let anyone talk you into going. You're the skipper and if you're not happy, don't be embarrassed into making a bad call. (as most of us have! )

Once you've done it a couple of times, your confidence will grow.

Enjoy.

RR

 

[superheat6k]

To clarify the HW Portsmouth turning of the tide from east to west, yes the pretty much applies west to east - 1.5 hours before LW. On neaps this weekend so as RR says at 21 knots having wind and tide fair against you will make for a smoother trip, but on a saily boat at 5 knots almost twice as long.

Tide at Pompey will turn west about 7 - 7.30 am, but at neaps the stand will be longer and it won't amount to much. Tide movement in Poole bay is much less, especially to the north of the bay, so allowing for your three hours plus a bit I would aim to be on my track for around 9 - 9.30.

Don't be ashamed to make a bolt hole if your tired or fed up. P*ssing off your intended SWMBO has long lasting consequences for happy boating. My Nephew married a woman who decided she hated boating and he hasn't been on a boat since. My SWMBO (no.2 by the way) was politely informed on date 1 never to try to separate me from the boating, and bless her She never has, despite all the other things she's tried to change.

Of course if She's not your intended then wind over tide F6 - that should see and end to it !

 

[wipe_out]

Don't be ashamed to make a bolt hole if your tired or fed up. P*ssing off your intended SWMBO has long lasting consequences for happy boating. My Nephew married a woman who decided she hated boating and he hasn't been on a boat since. My SWMBO (no.2 by the way) was politely informed on date 1 never to try to separate me from the boating, and bless her She never has, despite all the other things she's tried to change.

Of course if She's not your intended then wind over tide F6 - that should see and end to it !

Haha.. very good..

I think she has worked out that every moment I am not forced to think about something else I have boating on my mind..

 

[superheat6k]

Did you make your passage today as intended ?

 

[wipe_out]

Did you make your passage today as intended ?

Unfortunately not.. I called in oy Thursday and cancelled it.. Pan is to go next on Saturday now so I am keeping my eyes glues to the weather for the next week.. Wish we had done it because today is lovely!!