Part 1 registry or S.S.R.

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blackdogsailing

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Hi.
Our boat was formally Part 1 registered but that has now expired. I have to start all over again if I wish to re register it that way. We are planning a Round the world trip in 2015 and am wondering whether anyone has had any problems anywhere with just an S.S.R. registration ?
Also, if I do go down the Part 1 route, how do I get a tonnage survey please ?
As always, thanks in advance !
Chris
 
blackdogsailing said:
Hi.
Our boat was formally Part 1 registered but that has now expired. I have to start all over again if I wish to re register it that way. We are planning a Round the world trip in 2015 and am wondering whether anyone has had any problems anywhere with just an S.S.R. registration ?
Also, if I do go down the Part 1 route, how do I get a tonnage survey please ?
As always, thanks in advance !
Chris
Click to expand...

There are many boats on SSR in foreign waters so I would think its not a great issue - but I have to say my experience only covers the EU med and Turkey.

For a tonnage survey just throw money at the MCA! 10 years ago mine was £800 ish.
 
Our Part 1 registration expired several years ago and having seen the costs involved in re-registering I also went down the SSR route. Keeping part 1 current is relatively inexpensive but if you need the survey (due to being over 1 year since expiry) it does get pricey!
 
Should not encounter any problems with an SSR. However if you no longer become resident in UK you will not be eligible to renew it. there are other advantages to Part 1, mainly the ability to have registered charges against the boat. Might not be of value to you, but could be to a potential buyer.

MCA has a list of approved tonnage surveyors or you can check on the YDSA site as their members will show whether they are approved on their listing. If you choose one close to your boat, the fee will be nothing like that suggested above.
 
Tranona said:
Should not encounter any problems with an SSR. However if you no longer become resident in UK you will not be eligible to renew it. there are other advantages to Part 1, mainly the ability to have registered charges against the boat. Might not be of value to you, but could be to a potential buyer.

MCA has a list of approved tonnage surveyors or you can check on the YDSA site as their members will show whether they are approved on their listing. If you choose one close to your boat, the fee will be nothing like that suggested above.
Click to expand...

err it wasn't a suggestion its what we paid - I queried it at the time and they simply read a price off a chart around £125. then there was the cert it self another £80 ish pounds if my memory serves me but by far MOST of the fee (£804 have found the cheque stub) was travelling time for two people to go a few miles - yes a bit of a con I thought.

find out all about it here

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/registering-your-pleasure-craft
 
Our boat was once Pt 1, but had expired. We wanted Pt 1 and didn't have to pay for a new survey. The reregistration came through with all the original details.
 
If you are planning a RTW trip and the SSR will expire while you are away then it is likely that you will not be able to renew it.

The SSR people seem to be hot on ensuring that you are currently a UK resident defined I believe as being actually in the UK for 183 days in a year,before renewing the SSR.

Lots of long term liveaboards are having problems renewing their SSR.
 
blackdogsailing said:
Hi.
Our boat was formally Part 1 registered but that has now expired. I have to start all over again if I wish to re register it that way. We are planning a Round the world trip in 2015 and am wondering whether anyone has had any problems anywhere with just an S.S.R. registration ?
Also, if I do go down the Part 1 route, how do I get a tonnage survey please ?
As always, thanks in advance !
Chris
Click to expand...

Why not get Belgian registration?
 
Sybarite said:
Why not get Belgian registration?
Click to expand...

There is little - if any advantage of Belgian registration over British. Probably in the OPs situation it would probably cause more problems explaining why a British person has a Belgian registered boat on his round the world trip. The SSR for £25 is perfectly acceptable and the renewal issue is overstated and easily avoided if you remain a UK taxpayer and have an address in UK. The problems arise if you choose to become resident elsewhere.

Belgian registration has advantages for some people who do not wish to have their boat registered in their home country for other reasons than just convenience.
 
MASH said:
They don't check if you're a taxpayer when you renew SSR do they?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, but in the eligibility criteria it says that if your residence would mean you were subject to UK tax you would be eligible to use the register, not that paying tax is a requirement. The criteria are not tightly worded, but if you are not officially resident elsewhere and have a UK address there is no reason why they should check your self declaration.

Many people who live a nomadic life are still resident in the UK because they have not taken residence elsewhere, or elected to be non resident - the latter is not easy to achieve unless you become resident elsewhere, or cut ties completely with UK.
 
Good afternoon:

Having recent experience trying to re-new an SSR certificate which I don't want to expand on I can suggest that all is not the same as it was a few years ago and it appears to me that the new authority has the same nit-picking mentality as the local traffic warden.

I am investigating changing my flag to another country for estate planning purposes however if you don't live in the UK for 183 days of the year I suggest you pay attention to the experiences of others and make arrangements to ensure that your SSR is renewed when due.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
There are currently four USA registered yachts, all with home port Delaware, berthed along the quay we are on. All are crewed, and presumably owned, by Turks. We have also seen Israeli and other nationalities with the same flag and port. I looked at the requirements last year, not too expensive to arrange.
 
American Flags Flutter on Marmaris Yachts

Good afternoon:

This is a repeat of an article written by an American who berthed in Marmaris several years ago - I hope he will not be annoyed at me for making use of his very interesting report which fully explains the reason and method of registering yachts in Delaware USA.

Why do so many of the yachts in Marmaris fly an American flag with a homeport of Delaware? Delaware is the smallest US state, save one. Turkey has a population over 85 times that of Delaware and a land area over 120 times as great. Have a large number of Delaware yachts sailed across the stormy north Atlantic, to take advantage of Turkish hospitality and the warm, cloudless, summers of Marmaris? Probably not. We must look elsewhere to learn the reasons that the Stars and Stripes flutters from the sterns of so many yachts in Marmaris.
One reason may be the apparent inability to register a used yacht in Turkey; another perhaps the ease of registration in Delaware. Of course some yacht owners may have other reasons for choosing to register in the USA in general and in Delaware in particular.
I have been informed, and I believe, that Turkey will not place used yachts on its register although it will do so for new ones. What is a Turkish citizen to do if he wants to buy a used yacht? He has to register it somewhere and he can not do so in Turkey. He talks to friends, looks around the world and discovers Delaware. But he is a citizen of Turkey not of the USA. Delaware might be reluctant to do things for a Turk. No problem; just organize an LLC.
An LLC is a Limited Liability Company, an entity with some of the attributes of a partnership and some of a corporation. A corporation is owned by its share holders. An LLC is owned by it members. Both have limited liability. If a Corporation negligently injures someone, the corporation is liable, but not its share holders. The same is true for an LLC. If an LLC injures someone only the LLC and not its members are liable. In other words if a yacht owned by an LLC were to collide with the Titanic and sink her, the liability of the LLC would be limited to the assets of the LLC. The LLC members would not be personally liable unless, of course one of them was at the helm when the collision occurred.
Imagine that three friends, Groucho, Chico, and Harpo want to buy a used yacht and they decide to have a home port in Delaware. What do they do? They pick a name for their LLC that is acceptable to the state of Delaware. Delaware will not let them register any name that is confusingly similar to that of an LLC or other business entity authorized to do business in Delaware. Delaware will not accept an application to register a new entity called: "Coca-Cola LLC". The name of the LLC need not be the same as that of the yacht. Suppose Groucho, Chico and Harpo decide on "Mutlu" as the name of their LLC and Delaware accepts. After the filing of a few simple documents and payment of less than about $200 in fees to the state of Delaware; Groucho, Chico and Harpo become the only three members and therefore the only three owners of a new business entity called "Mutlu LLC". The yacht is then purchased by Mutlu LLC. Title to the yacht is in the name of Mutlu LLC. Neither Groucho, nor Chico nor Harpo own the yacht. The three of them own the LLC and the LLC owns the yacht. Are they equal owners? That is up to them. Can they sell some of their membership to a fourth member? That's up to them. Can any one of them sell the yacht or does it take all three? That's up to them.
Suppose none of them is a citizen of the USA. Delaware doesn't care. Suppose Harpo wants to sell his share in Mutlu LLC to Mae West. Delaware doesn't care. This is a transaction that is private between Harpo and Mae West. Not only is there no need to tell Delaware, if Harpo told Delaware the Delaware clerk would likely not know what to do with the letter. What about tax on the sale of Harpo's sale of his membership. There is none. Delaware has no value added tax. (Türkçe: KDV)
Suppose the three of them agree to "sell the yacht"; how to they do it. Remember they don't own it. The LLC owns it. The yacht can either be sold by Mutlu LLC to the new buyer or all the existing members can simply sell their memberships to the new owner. What does the state of Delaware collect in taxes on the sale? Not one red cent. In fact there is no need to even report the sale. If the new owner(s) buy the memberships from the existing owners, does Delaware need to be told? No.
There are few disadvantages. First, the LLC must have a "registered agent" in Delaware. If a complaint is filed against the LLC, Delaware requires that the LLC have a registered agent upon whom the complaint can be served. Most registered agents will serve for less than $100/year. Another small disadvantage is than annual reports must be filed in Delaware but the reports are simple and the filing cost is small. Must one have an agent or attorney to deal with Delaware? No, but the costs of hiring an attorney or agent are not great and are negotiable.
Why Delaware? Because it has historically been very friendly to business entities like LLC's and has been the state of incorporation of many large US corporations. On the other hand an LLC can be registered in any state. There is competition amongst states for the business of registering LLC's. Other states such as Nevada and Virginia seem to be favorites.
Used yachts owned by Turks are not the only yachts registered in Delaware or another US state. I have heard that some citizens of the prior iron-curtain countries choose to not register yachts in their home country because of fear of changing laws relating to taxes and the ownership of private property. I have also heard that some citizens of Israel believe that a US flag on the stern might attract somewhat less attention than that of an Israeli flag. It is impossible to tell what motivates skippers to register in the USA, but clearly many believe it has advantages.
In summary, the proliferation of US flag yachts in Marmaris appears to be caused by factors such as: restrictions on registration of used vessels in Turkey; the low cost and flexibility of registration in Delaware; and the desire of some yacht owners to maintain a low profile.


Cheers

Squeaky
 
Not least, if the yacht has been bought cheaply on the otherside of the pond, it can sail around Europe for 18 months without paying vAT and just by sailing south to Maroc and back, renews the 18 month period. Maryland has similar rules.
 
Squeaky, your American's account and example was an amusing comment why Turkish yachts have to resort to Delaware registration. Thanks for posting.

I had known about the mechanism since meeting such a US-flagged Slovenian in the Adriatic when Slovenia imposed a heavy tax in imported boats as protectionism for Elan yachts. He paid $100 p.a. to an agency in Delaware. That all ended when Slovenia acceded to the EU and such protectionism was prohibited.

This year has seen a preponderance of Belgian ensigns in the Adriatic, all owned by Italians avoiding Mario Monti's boat tax - I understand it is as easy to obtain Belgian registration as it used to be for the SSR.
 
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