Parking with bow thruster on 32ft long keeler

Interesting thread: Dabchick is long keel and goes unpredictably astern but does turn easily as the stern goes off to one side, but not alway6s the predicted side from wind and paddle wheel effect. I have over the years learnt not to get into spaces I cant get out of, or to think my options including warping out etc. I had considered a bow thruster as an upgrade but it involves either serious cost or serious boat butchery, is it one more thing to try to think about and risk pushing the wrong way and messing up?

How much effect does a big three blade prop have and is going astern any easier with say a bruntons autoprop or similar, or is there even a downside to that with a boat that still doesn't go astern but now doesn`t turn easily either?
 
Friend bought a Rustler 36 and I just could not believe how neither of us could go astern for anything other than a few feet under a semblance of control. He perservered for 1 year before the number of scratches and frights decided a bow thruster was best.

We have a responsibility to be able to manoeuvre our boats under control and not put all our fellow sailors boats at risks. Some boats are impossible to predict astern - that's hard for those with fin keels to imagine. Lets forget the macho BS - depending on the boat, where you MAY have to berth, and your skill level take what steps you need not to put others boats at risk.

On my 36 & 38 AWB I managed without a bow thruster but high freeboard and side winds did cause problems on occasions. Now with a 43DS I did not hesitate to order with a bow thruster and my 43 is probable more easy to manoeuvre than a 32' long keel
 
Never used a bow thruster but have sailed long keepers single handed, 9t hillyard and a Nicholson 36. Personally the thought of giving up all that space and adding all that complexity to a lovely little boat seems quite criminal. For me single handing a long keeper meant accepting the easier berth, accepting help when offered, taking an easy berth then walking along the pontoon to check out other spaces. Additionally having to ask for help to warp the boat around before leaving and having extra light lines that will slip easily etc. Other useful skills including learning to use the momentum of the boat in the turn.
I think really it is just a different learning curve and accept what the boat does well and have strategies for dealing with other aspects.
 
stav said:
Never used a bow thruster but have sailed long keepers single handed, 9t hillyard and a Nicholson 36. Personally the thought of giving up all that space and adding all that complexity to a lovely little boat seems quite criminal. For me single handing a long keeper meant accepting the easier berth, accepting help when offered, taking an easy berth then walking along the pontoon to check out other spaces. Additionally having to ask for help to warp the boat around before leaving and having extra light lines that will slip easily etc. Other useful skills including learning to use the momentum of the boat in the turn.
I think really it is just a different learning curve and accept what the boat does well and have strategies for dealing with other aspects.
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You are a sailor Sir, many are not
 
sailorman said:
You are a sailor Sir, many are not
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My Dad said the same about roller reefing when it came in, used to mutter words like "cheating", "never sets right" and "set the right sail for the wind". Time moves on and good innovations stick around. For us younger chaps with long keeler's a bowthruster is a great addition, gives lots more control and annoys old fogies ;) what's not to like about that?
 
I'm always amazed to read the criticisms that bow thrusters provoke, mainly from sailors who clearly have had little or no experience of helming a long keeler. My boat which I have grown very accustomed to over the past 15 years is an elderly 35ft Hallberg Rassy which is not dissimilar underwater to the Nic 32. Despite all the advice and all the practicing, this boat cannot be steered going backwards in close confines. Prop walk and wind will create all sorts of problems and just when you think she's going to turn in the direction you think she'll go the other way. In light winds and still water she will sometimes respond if you are making 2 knots but even then it is a lottery.

I fitted a bow thruster 4 years ago and this has revolutionised handling backwards and forwards in close confines. I'm perfectly happy now finding a berth in a strange marina or in a gale and my blood pressure must be much lower as a result. I can steer the boat going astern just as accurately as going ahead. I ensured that the tunnel was properly faired and there has been no detectable loss of speed. Don't worry what others may think, if you wish to manoeuvre in tight spaces it is a godsend.
 
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Lazy Kipper said:
My Dad said the same about roller reefing when it came in, used to mutter words like "cheating", "never sets right" and "set the right sail for the wind". Time moves on and good innovations stick around. For us younger chaps with long keeler's a bowthruster is a great addition, gives lots more control and annoys old fogies ;) what's not to like about that?
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Your fine vessel is far more commodious than a Nic 32 in which to fit a thruster
 
capnsensible said:
I quite fail to see why anything that makes a vessel easier to manouver should be sneered at. Am I missing something important?
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Yes, belonging to the self appointed "real sailors" group! (or is it self important - can't always tell the difference).
 
sailorman said:
Yes & warps are much cheaper & certainly far more reliable
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Tranona said:
Yes, belonging to the self appointed "real sailors" group! (or is it self important - can't always tell the difference).
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No sneering from me, just simple advise & #3 sums it up. why spend £3>4 k or say 20% of her value,on kit that will get little use
 
sailorman said:
No sneering from me, just simple advise & #3 sums it up. why spend £3>4 k or say 20% of her value,on kit that will get little use
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Post #3 does not sum anything up. Just one person's opinion. Surely people can make their own decision whether they want to spend the money or not depending on the value of the item to them? How can you possibly say how much use another person might get out of it?
 
timmygobang said:
No idea of the drag, but being relatively new to long keel boats myself I would say save your money, and get to know how your boat moves first.

I wouldn't judge you, but I think a bow thruster on a 32ft boat may raise a few eyebrows and be seen as unnecessary
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I know personally you're not judging, but why would he mind if his choice of a manoeuvring aid raises eyebrows? I just don't get this whole bowthruster thing, it makes manoeuvring tricky boats much easier. In the days of long keel design marinas were much rarer and the boat was designed with sea keeping and handling as priorities; now we need our yachts to spin on the spot to get into a tight berth. A bowthruster is just a retro fit to give most of that manourverability. What on earth is wrong with that on a 25 footer, a 32 footer or a blumin pond yacht? Is it really just old fogeyism? Surely there must be better reasons than just that it gives the wrong impression?
 
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timmygobang said:
No idea of the drag, but being relatively new to long keel boats myself I would say save your money, and get to know how your boat moves first.

I wouldn't judge you, but I think a bow thruster on a 32ft boat may raise a few eyebrows and be seen as unnecessary
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Well said, just get to know the boat and its not a problem.
 
stav said:
Personally the thought of giving up all that space and adding all that complexity to a lovely little boat seems quite criminal.
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What space and complexity? I've no experience of using one, but our 'new' project boat has a bow-thruster fitted. It takes up very little space, occupying about half of a small compartment under the sole of the forecabin. It is not at all complex, it just has a few cables - one for controls, and a pair for power.

Engines are much more complex and space consuming. Do you forego those, too?

stav said:
For me single handing a long keeper meant accepting the easier berth, accepting help when offered, taking an easy berth then walking along the pontoon to check out other spaces. Additionally having to ask for help to warp the boat around before leaving and having extra light lines that will slip easily etc.
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And, by implication, avoiding places where easy berths aren't available or there's no certainty of them, and risking getting stuck if there's no help to warp her around when you are about to leave?

I love our long-keeler, but look forward to having the benefit of a bow-thruster to help with manouevring astern. Can't see that it'll detract from the enjoyment.
 
Tranona said:
Post #3 does not sum anything up. Just one person's opinion. Surely people can make their own decision whether they want to spend the money or not depending on the value of the item to them? How can you possibly say how much use another person might get out of it?
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I managed my Co32 for 11 yrs with out a thruster, they dont "Do" backwards well either
 
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