Parking with bow thruster on 32ft long keeler

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eddystone

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One of the boats I admire from an aesthetic point of view is the Nic 32 - not because it's a long keeler. In fact, as someone who has to single hand probably most of the time, reversing them fills me with horror. I have seen one with a bow thruster however and, never having used one, I wondered how much use they are to try and reverse roughly where you intended? To be honest my experience of long keel boats is limited to my now sold small Crabber - everything else I've ever sailed is fin and skeg.
Also, given Nic 32 progress in light winds likely to be "stately" I wondered whether the drag from a bow thruster tunnel would make it significantly worse.
 
Reversing with the long keel only really becomes an issue if you are marina based or use marinas a lot. This is probably why you see so many long keeled boats on swinging moorings. The bow thruster will certainly aid being able to keep the boat in a straightish line going backwards and I doubt that the thruster tunnel would add any significant drag to the boat. Much more likely to have significant drag from a socking great 3 bladed prop! The stately progress in light winds will be part of the charm of the Nic 32, something I would happily take in exchange for a solid good looking classic. They are very nice boats and are well put together. :)

Rob
 
No idea of the drag, but being relatively new to long keel boats myself I would say save your money, and get to know how your boat moves first.

I wouldn't judge you, but I think a bow thruster on a 32ft boat may raise a few eyebrows and be seen as unnecessary
 
I can only comment on a fat sterned Bavaria 42 Cruiser with twin rudders. She would not go astern slowly due to low water flow over the rudders and as such the bow blew off down wind. The bow thruster was required to reverse out/in of a berth and in to perform a 3 point turn (something most boats that can't reverse perform well without a bow thruster in my experience). When reversing on the Bavaria I just used small bursts to counter the bow drifting off and it worked very well.

I believe that even on a long keeled yacht with the bow thruster being well forward of the propellor and aft part of the keel it should be capable of countering any tendency that the bow may have to turn. On my own Rival 41 its clear that the 3 blade propellor and keel work together to divert all the thrust down the starboard side of the keel, thus giving me a huge stern to port effect when underway in reverse.

Drag for bow thrusters can be significant if the tunnel is not faired correctly. If you look at some hulls when they are out the water they tunnel has large fairings on the forward edge, or 'eyebrows'. It's been posted on this forum that a yacht without eyebrows lost up to a knot of speed compared to the pre bow thruster hull, then had the eyebrows added and gained the knot back. So, I believe that a correctly installed tunnel with the eyebrows would not make that much difference to low wind speed hull speed.
 
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timmygobang said:
No idea of the drag, but being relatively new to long keel boats myself I would say save your money, and get to know how your boat moves first.

I wouldn't judge you, but I think a bow thruster on a 32ft boat may raise a few eyebrows and be seen as unnecessary
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Oh please do, everyone else does! However this already has one fitted - however it doesn't seem to be faired in much but I guess it's not difficult to raise a couple of eyebrows on it (sic).
 
robmcg said:
... The bow thruster will certainly aid being able to keep the boat in a straightish line going backwards ...
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But I thought the problem, especially with long keels (though I have zero experience with them) is turning when you want to, rather than going straight!

Not really sure a thruster would help, since such yachts do not have a fin to act as a pivot.

Mike.
 
timmygobang said:
No idea of the drag, but being relatively new to long keel boats myself I would say save your money, and get to know how your boat moves first.

I wouldn't judge you, but I think a bow thruster on a 32ft boat may raise a few eyebrows and be seen as unnecessary
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I fitted a BT on my 29ft Cat after many years. Money well spent and makes life a lot calmer for me, especially in marinas.
 
My boat's a much longer long keeler than a Nic 32 and has a bow thruster. It is exceptionally easy to reverse using the bow thruster, just centre the helm and leave it there. Without the thruster, reversing in most situations is possible but can be challenging and there are situations where I would not attempt it. But, the thruster isn't 100% reliable so I normally try to do all the parking without it, keeping it 'in reserve' if required.

Having the thruster is a real bonus in some situations. For example, I'm on a pile mooring on a river and I prefer to leave the boat pointing downriver and into the prevailing wind. When the tide is ebbing, the thruster is essential for reversing into the river flow - I've tried plenty several times to do this without the thruster and have never found a way to do it.

The circa 10" thruster tunnel did not have eyebrows until this year and, when looking from in front of the bow with the boat out of the water, I'd guestimate approx 25-30 sq inches of the aft face of the thruster tunnel was visible. So had some eyebrows fitted and it seems to have had a marked difference on performance.
 
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I've sailed a Nic32 with a bow thruster and it was quite luxurious, though energy hungry, and certainly made things easier. I also sailed the same boat a lot in my teens without one and it was handy but not essential. It didn't noticeably slow the boat down when it was fitted.

One useful feature of the bow thruster is you can override 'helpful' people who grab hold of the bow and pull it thus messing up your docking.

eddystone said:
One of the boats I admire from an aesthetic point of view is the Nic 32 - not because it's a long keeler. In fact, as someone who has to single hand probably most of the time, reversing them fills me with horror. I have seen one with a bow thruster however and, never having used one, I wondered how much use they are to try and reverse roughly where you intended? To be honest my experience of long keel boats is limited to my now sold small Crabber - everything else I've ever sailed is fin and skeg.
Also, given Nic 32 progress in light winds likely to be "stately" I wondered whether the drag from a bow thruster tunnel would make it significantly worse.
Click to expand...
 
mjcoon said:
But I thought the problem, especially with long keels (though I have zero experience with them) is turning when you want to, rather than going straight!

Not really sure a thruster would help, since such yachts do not have a fin to act as a pivot.

Mike.
Click to expand...

Ours goes backwards in a circle, due to the paddle wheel effect of the massive 3 bladed prop. Straight in reverse is a distant dream. I suspect there is more at play than it being just a long keeler - rudder surface area, prop apeture, keel surface area, prop, displacement all play their part before considering wind and tide effects. I think a bow thruster would certainly aid being able to keep the bow in check on our boat but is very much down the list on upgrades as we very rarely use marinas anyway. If it had one when we bought it, I would consider it a plus though!
 
Many long keelers will go backwards under inboard engine. The problem often is, that they will shear off in an unexpected direction.

Parsifal has some good ideas for tilting the odds in your favour, particularly the use of a trailing weight off the bow. He will be along in a bit, perhaps.

I would certainly give everything a go before making any big decision.
 
The solution to manoeuvring a long keeler astern lies not in technology but in cultivating the air and expression on your face that all is going according to plan.

Of course, this takes a lifetime to achieve.
 
parsifal said:
Here's a recent thread on the 'trials and tribulations' of handling a long-keeled boat

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?366629-Long-Keeler-going-astern

Have you had a word with the class association for Nic 32s (if there is one)? Probably lots of advice available from other owners.
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I am sure there must be one. They celebrated 50 years of Nic at this year's Cowes Classics Week and had a small fleet racing. In case you are interested, the Belgium entry "Hobbit" won, but they were such nice people that nobody minded :)
 
chinita said:
The solution to manoeuvring a long keeler astern lies not in technology but in cultivating the air and expression on your face that all is going according to plan.

Of course, this takes a lifetime to achieve.
Click to expand...

:)

Also wear gloves. Then people can't see your white knuckles.
 
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