Parker 275 Drying on the Forth

Laurie said:
has no one mentioned Kelt 8.50/850/feeling 29?
(well built, sail well, roomy, grounding plate.....short rudder)
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Aha, very interesting indeed!!

Though i cant find much info on them at all!!

Gibsea 282 looks similar??

Has anyone got any info on these type of boats with a grounding plate? Are they ok bouncing up and down on a shopping trolley as the tide goes in and out in a Forth harbour??

I hanker after a bit of speed in a slightly smaller boat rather than going to 31ft in a bilge moody or fulmar. Feels good to be slightly smaller for Forth harbours amd sailing with the kids.
 
No, not similar to the Gib Sea at all.....quicker. As to bouncing up and down...well, at least there is a substantial grounding plate?
YM did a short comparo on these and others, there are one or two reviews which I got when I was looking at them ...all of which I can email on if you wish. PBO have run some pieces too...
How does one pm? I don't know, my email is laurie@lmilton.co.uk if I can help

Reviews cover most 28 and 29 footers, Moody's, Westerly's, Kelts, Jeanneaus, Feelings, MG, Laser, Gib Sea, Beneteau and others...... if you want them?
 
Laurie said:
No, not similar to the Gib Sea at all.....quicker. As to bouncing up and down...well, at least there is a substantial grounding plate?
YM did a short comparo on these and others, there are one or two reviews which I got when I was looking at them ...all of which I can email on if you wish. PBO have run some pieces too...
How does one pm? I don't know, my email is laurie@lmilton.co.uk if I can help

Reviews cover most 28 and 29 footers, Moody's, Westerly's, Kelts, Jeanneaus, Feelings, MG, Laser, Gib Sea, Beneteau and others...... if you want them?
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Email sent
 
roblpm said:
If this doesnt work the other options are:

Hunter Horizon 272 / Ranger 265 (bit slow? fit out a bit basic to impress wife and kids!? have looked at 3 or 4 and havent fallen in love) 15-22k
Jeanneau 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside! looked at an absolutely immaculate one which has now sold) 33k
Delphia 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside!) 34k
Moody 31 Mk2 Bilge (too big for kids to think they are sailing it?! old? fast enough, have looked at some manky ones!) 30k

Cheers

Rob
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I have a Delphia 29 - with which I've been very pleasantly surprised over the past 5 years. Ideal size for young family sailing and, provided you reef early, easy for everyone to take a turn at handling. All the balast is internal - in a sort of long stub keel that she sits on when drying out. I've only dried to mud but don't see any reason why drying to anything "harder" (sand, shingle) should cause a problem. But it ain't a boat for racing!
 
When you actually try it, drying out on firm sand is horrific, even tiny ripples of waves jarring the boat like the End Of The World !

It helps to motor the boat hard aground first, but it's not a practice to be repeated by anyone who cares for their boat.
 
tyce said:
Having been the owner for quite a few years of a hunter horizon 272 TK then a Parker 27 and now a Moody 31 mk11 TK i feel fairly well qualified to answer this question.

I also used them for pretty much what you are going to do.

Horizon - good boat but certainly no where near as fast as the Moody 31 water line length alone sees to this, solidly built but simple, do your research on osmosis / wicking issues before purchasing there was a bad batch. 1gm10 grossly underpowered.

Parker 27 - wow what a boat, it sails like a witch in all directions, you have to gear down a bit or you can scare the family, can be a little flighty and need to reef early. 1gm10 grossly underpowered.

Moody 31 mk 11 twin keel- sails better than it should, will take everything in its stride, heavy and dependable, i do a little light club racing in it as i have all the other boats and it performs well. Acoomadation is lovely and build quality far better than the other two. Volvo is powerful and dependable, far better than the rest at family cruising.

All three boats live or have lived on my very soft mud mooring and never any issues with any.
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Just looked at a pretty good moody 31 bilge this morning on the hamble. Immaculate inside and nothing that cant be sorted outside. Trouble is it just feels too big for what i want at the moment, sailing with 2 small kids and only the occasional overnight with mates. For week long tripa will be going west coast on my mates boat.

So back to the handicap lists at 27 feet!!
 
Hi Rob. I am the owner of VELA a Parker 275 which is usually moored at Port Edgar. She is in the Forth and Clyde Canal at present coming back from a summer on the west coast. I race at PEYC and will be competing in ECSW So come along and make yourself known to me. The other Forth 275 from Elie also plans to sail in ECSW. He moors in Elie all the time with no problems on the sand. The Parker 275 is a superb boat and sails like a dream and way faster and better pointing than any of the boats you mention. My last two boats have been bigger X-Yachts and the parkers performance though smaller is up there. If you want to race at PEYC do not go for a bilge keel boat as you will be left behind and regret it. The other Parker at Elie is sailed by him and his young family, ask him at ECSW. Having spent 50 days aboard this summer on the west coast I can testify that the 275 is an amazing boat and easily handled by two or young family. As I say come along and see VELA at PE or maybe a sail. You will be sold on one. Four for sale at present on the PSSA web page.
 
Seajet said:
When you actually try it, drying out on firm sand is horrific, even tiny ripples of waves jarring the boat like the End Of The World !
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Slightest ripples.....End of the World Come on get real.

Well I have actually tried it an awful lot this year. We have beached regularly on hard sand, shingle and broken slate beaches around North Wales and South Brittany. I prefer to land in reasonably quiet conditions but have dried out in some serious swells in drying harbours (especially Castletown).

It really is not the problem that you make it out to be Andy.

When I last looked our hull and antifouling is still immaculate where the hull makes contact. I have in some circumstances pulled two fenders under the aft flat sections and sat on them to give some additional protection and help get the boat to dry out level.

It also helps to dry out quickly so I tend to choose to dry out at half tide when we lose as much as an inch a minute in water depth around here!

I find it is also helpful to release the lifting keel as soon as you ground so the boat does not lift the keel on an off the bottom as it settles in any swell.
 
I am ' getting real ' and others agree with me, I suppose it depends how much one cares about ones' boat; on the occasion I mention a friends' novice wife burst into tears at the jarring, though to be fair if we'd all known the future it would have been best to use her underneath as a shock absorber...:rolleyes:
 
Seajet said:
I am ' getting real ' on the occasion I mention a friends' novice wife burst into tears at the jarring, :
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Try it more than once then!

Shame on you to proffer your esteemed advice on the basis of one bad experience.

You could well be putting off inexperienced lift keel users from one of the greatest pleasures you can have and for which their boat has been designed.
 
TSB240 said:
Try it more than once then!

Shame on you to proffer your esteemed advice on the basis of one bad experience.

You could well be putting off inexperienced lift keel users from one of the greatest pleasures you can have and for which their boat has been designed.
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Pray tell how it's going to be better next time ?

No boat is meant to be bounced on what is almost as bad as rock, one is supposed to operate in sympathy with ones' boat and that is what my ' esteemed advice suggests ' !

If that's your idea of ' one of the greatest pleasures you can have ' you really ought to dry a proper drying mooring, with boat upright, she and ones' fillings still intact, and the wildlife strolling around, that's my idea of pleasant.

Ta for the ' esteemed ' bit though, I'll take it no matter how it was meant ! :)
 
Given that it is the same hull as the Super Seal 27, just buy it. It stands out as the most tactile boat that I have sailed to windward. That encompasses boats worth ten time as much and twice as long. Do buy it some new sails though. George Parker is a lovely bloke too.
 
seumask said:
We had a similar lift keel'er a Hunter Delta that dried on to hard sand nearly every day of its life. Like the Parker 27 it had a flat bottom with the keel lifted completely in to the hull. No big issues if the place you dry out is relatively sheltered, Entrance to Chichester Harbour for us, and West Kirby before us. No one would want to dry out in significant waves, however by the time the boat touches the sand the waves have usually subsided as there was only approximately a foot of water. Shelving beaches are more of an issue than large relatively flat drying sands.
Drying onto sand has the big advantage that you can get out and walk around the boat without getting muddy and mired. As indicated by other's drying on rocks is a NO NO, but shingle is fine. In fact if I remember correctly the Parker has a substantial internal Ballast Plate that could protect against landing on rocks in extremis.
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The 275 has the cast iron ballast shoe moulded into the hull and is pretty effectively protected. She also sails well (Ron Holland) design. The demonstrators in Bill Parker's yard, definitely preferred the 275 to the 31 and raced theirs very effectively.
Having a fair bit of form stability she doesn't heel so much as her big sister the 31 (which I have). Usually, they dry out level on a flat surface but it's not a good idea to have your heaviest crew sleeping on one side ( as we found out in Mylor Creek when the tide went out).
The sliding plate is weighted with 500lbs so jamming by mud or sand is unlikely. They can be very quick off the wind, with spinnaker and plate up.
I didn't keep mine (well it was the precursor to the 275) because of the restrictions in the heads/showers. But in light airs she could run rings around the 31, though the latter is a lot faster and a better single-hander.
Better than any other configuration for taking the ground but, as already said, not where there's a chance of slamming.
 
You may not be surprised to hear that I disagree with the statement ' better than any other configuration for taking the ground'...

Boats with a completely retracting keel and flush bottom are vulnerable to even small nasty pointy objects on the seabed, grounding plate or not, and the plate is still liable to intrusion by mud and / or stones and jamming.

Those with a ballast bulb which remains external have a much better protection, and in mud ( ie a normal mooring ) the bulb sinks in leaving the boat completely upright, and the bulb - 9" deep cast iron - gives a good chance of shouldering aside the proverbial tesco trolley on approach to an unknown mooring.

On my boat the bulb is veed on top to fair in with the hull so mud and stones are not an issue, as I have known it to be on fully retracting E-Boats and Seal 22's with their small external ballast.

Having the 900lbs ballast 4'6" down is a lot more efficient for sailing than having it in the bilges too.
 
Andy it seems to me the trauma of your experience of "taking to hard ground" has limited you to only landing your craft in deep mire. :rolleyes:

It is lovely to be able to walk on the harder stuff rather than be confined to your boat watching the waders go by as you settle into your muddy wallow.

You can even take a ramble around the coastal path or walk to the local!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79352891/IMAG0094.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79352891/IMAG0119.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79352891/IMAG0132.jpg

Bit muddy here
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79352891/IMAG0261.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79352891/IMAG0259.jpg

Beverley still has a full set of fillings despite the 6" breakers on many a landfall!

This is what happens if you try and walk from a landing stage to a muddy wallow
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79352891/IMAG0636.jpg
 
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