Parker 275 Drying on the Forth

R

roblpm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 Mar 2012
Messages
7,310
Visit site
Posted before about buying a cruising boat to sail on the Firth of Forth and had some great feedback. The idea is to get something I can take the kids out in, race a bit (though not seriously), and take my mates for a night away at some glamerous Forth location! Maybe go as far as Lindisfarne for a long weekend. Week cruises not necessary at the moment due to lack of interest from SWMBO and availability of a mates yacht at Arisaig for Western adventures.

My current plan is to look at some Parker 275s as they seem to have a good blend of speed, size (just took kids on a bene 211 and they loved it as they could do everything!) and drying out ability that I am after. Also they are about the right price as my budget is about 25k plus a bit if necessary.

However I understand that unlike bilge keelers or some other lifting keel boats when they dry they come to rest on the hull. This may not be a problem for me as the places I want to go are mud or sand I think. The places I have looked in the Forth Pilot that seem suitable for a night at the pub include Limekilns, Aberdour, Anstruther, Dunbar etc. Also beaches like Gullane look good for a picnic with the kids whilst waiting for the tise to go out and come in again!

So what I am after is info on the bottoms at these sort of places (fnar fnar) ie nice mud, nice sand, big horrible rocks! and whether people would dry their Parker 275 there.

I will probably put the boat at Port Edgar so it wont be drying on every tide, though shallow draft is definitely an advantage there due to lack of dredging!!

If this doesnt work the other options are:

Hunter Horizon 272 / Ranger 265 (bit slow? fit out a bit basic to impress wife and kids!? have looked at 3 or 4 and havent fallen in love) 15-22k
Jeanneau 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside! looked at an absolutely immaculate one which has now sold) 33k
Delphia 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside!) 34k
Moody 31 Mk2 Bilge (too big for kids to think they are sailing it?! old? fast enough, have looked at some manky ones!) 30k

Cheers

Rob
 
In a word - yes

There is a down side however

Its going to be difficult to stop mud being pushed up the trunking - probably not show stopper

The other point is that the keel retracts up to the hull so the boat will tend to lie rolled a bit to one side or another.

The big sister, the 31, had a wing keel which held the hull level and the front 2/3 clear of the bottom.

Having said that you will be getting a lovely boat. If she sails like my 31 did you'll be smiling too much to care.
 
Beadle said:
In a word - yes

There is a down side however

Its going to be difficult to stop mud being pushed up the trunking - probably not show stopper

The other point is that the keel retracts up to the hull so the boat will tend to lie rolled a bit to one side or another.

The big sister, the 31, had a wing keel which held the hull level and the front 2/3 clear of the bottom.

Having said that you will be getting a lovely boat. If she sails like my 31 did you'll be smiling too much to care.
Click to expand...

I think the mud will be manageable as in practice this is only going to happen a limited number of times a year. Will be in Port Edgar Marina most of the time. Anchored off some of the time and occasionally drying.

Interesting your point about lieing to one side. I assume if it is mud this wont really happen, however staying the night on a beach might be interesting if its hard sand. I suppose the trick is to find places that are soft with no rocks!
 
We had a similar lift keel'er a Hunter Delta that dried on to hard sand nearly every day of its life. Like the Parker 27 it had a flat bottom with the keel lifted completely in to the hull. No big issues if the place you dry out is relatively sheltered, Entrance to Chichester Harbour for us, and West Kirby before us. No one would want to dry out in significant waves, however by the time the boat touches the sand the waves have usually subsided as there was only approximately a foot of water. Shelving beaches are more of an issue than large relatively flat drying sands.
Drying onto sand has the big advantage that you can get out and walk around the boat without getting muddy and mired. As indicated by other's drying on rocks is a NO NO, but shingle is fine. In fact if I remember correctly the Parker has a substantial internal Ballast Plate that could protect against landing on rocks in extremis.
 
seumask said:
We had a similar lift keel'er a Hunter Delta that dried on to hard sand nearly every day of its life. Like the Parker 27 it had a flat bottom with the keel lifted completely in to the hull. No big issues if the place you dry out is relatively sheltered, Entrance to Chichester Harbour for us, and West Kirby before us. No one would want to dry out in significant waves, however by the time the boat touches the sand the waves have usually subsided as there was only approximately a foot of water. Shelving beaches are more of an issue than large relatively flat drying sands.
Drying onto sand has the big advantage that you can get out and walk around the boat without getting muddy and mired. As indicated by other's drying on rocks is a NO NO, but shingle is fine. In fact if I remember correctly the Parker has a substantial internal Ballast Plate that could protect against landing on rocks in extremis.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I think I am probably worrying unduly!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You'd need to be very thorough in checking potential ports, ideally enlisting local knowledge.

At Dysart for instance there are rocky patches in the moorings, a friends' lift keel Anderson 22 was holed and nearly sunk there despite having 9" of cast iron ballast bulb beneath the hull, a fully retracting keel flush bottom boat would probably have been a goner, and NB this was in the official moorings...
 
roblpm said:
Hunter Horizon 272 / Ranger 265 (bit slow? fit out a bit basic to impress wife and kids!? have looked at 3 or 4 and havent fallen in love) 15-22k
Jeanneau 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside! looked at an absolutely immaculate one which has now sold) 33k
Delphia 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside!) 34k
Moody 31 Mk2 Bilge (too big for kids to think they are sailing it?! old? fast enough, have looked at some manky ones!) 30k

Cheers

Rob
Click to expand...

hunter 272 is much faster than a moody 31 as indeed are the other boats mentioned. but it is one of the last really solid british boats and much better made than the jeanneau. ( that should start them off, but its true)

however, I would be nervous of having a drop keeler take to the ground frequently or on a mooring. Problem isnt just rocks . Its also rubbish - I frightened myself witless once drying out my first boat on its bilge keels just outside Portishead. As the water ebbed, a rusty old anchor shank appeared within a foot of my hull and about gunwale height. I put a rope on it but no way could I move it. Another 2 feet to port and I would have been holed. To give you another example we had a cat become waterlogged here because his mooring ( take to the ground) was sand and small pebbles but over a year the abrasion wore through the laminate on the keels. Incidentally when I was thinking the same as you I spoke to the Jeanneau / Benny people at SBS and they were honest enough to say that their drop keelers are shoal draft and are not for taking to the ground other than occasionally.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
hunter 272 is much faster than a moody 31 as indeed are the other boats mentioned. but it is one of the last really solid british boats and much better made than the jeanneau. ( that should start them off, but its true)

however, I would be nervous of having a drop keeler take to the ground frequently or on a mooring. Problem isnt just rocks . Its also rubbish - I frightened myself witless once drying out my first boat on its bilge keels just outside Portishead. As the water ebbed, a rusty old anchor shank appeared within a foot of my hull and about gunwale height. I put a rope on it but no way could I move it. Another 2 feet to port and I would have been holed. To give you another example we had a cat become waterlogged here because his mooring ( take to the ground) was sand and small pebbles but over a year the abrasion wore through the laminate on the keels. Incidentally when I was thinking the same as you I spoke to the Jeanneau / Benny people at SBS and they were honest enough to say that their drop keelers are shoal draft and are not for taking to the ground other than occasionally.
Click to expand...

Having been the owner for quite a few years of a hunter horizon 272 TK then a Parker 27 and now a Moody 31 mk11 TK i feel fairly well qualified to answer this question.

I also used them for pretty much what you are going to do.

Horizon - good boat but certainly no where near as fast as the Moody 31 water line length alone sees to this, solidly built but simple, do your research on osmosis / wicking issues before purchasing there was a bad batch. 1gm10 grossly underpowered.

Parker 27 - wow what a boat, it sails like a witch in all directions, you have to gear down a bit or you can scare the family, can be a little flighty and need to reef early. 1gm10 grossly underpowered.

Moody 31 mk 11 twin keel- sails better than it should, will take everything in its stride, heavy and dependable, i do a little light club racing in it as i have all the other boats and it performs well. Acoomadation is lovely and build quality far better than the other two. Volvo is powerful and dependable, far better than the rest at family cruising.

All three boats live or have lived on my very soft mud mooring and never any issues with any.
 
roblpm said:
Posted before about buying a cruising boat to sail on the Firth of Forth and had some great feedback. The idea is to get something I can take the kids out in, race a bit (though not seriously), and take my mates for a night away at some glamerous Forth location! Maybe go as far as Lindisfarne for a long weekend. Week cruises not necessary at the moment due to lack of interest from SWMBO and availability of a mates yacht at Arisaig for Western adventures.

My current plan is to look at some Parker 275s as they seem to have a good blend of speed, size (just took kids on a bene 211 and they loved it as they could do everything!) and drying out ability that I am after. Also they are about the right price as my budget is about 25k plus a bit if necessary.

However I understand that unlike bilge keelers or some other lifting keel boats when they dry they come to rest on the hull. This may not be a problem for me as the places I want to go are mud or sand I think. The places I have looked in the Forth Pilot that seem suitable for a night at the pub include Limekilns, Aberdour, Anstruther, Dunbar etc. Also beaches like Gullane look good for a picnic with the kids whilst waiting for the tise to go out and come in again!

So what I am after is info on the bottoms at these sort of places (fnar fnar) ie nice mud, nice sand, big horrible rocks! and whether people would dry their Parker 275 there.

I will probably put the boat at Port Edgar so it wont be drying on every tide, though shallow draft is definitely an advantage there due to lack of dredging!!

If this doesnt work the other options are:

Hunter Horizon 272 / Ranger 265 (bit slow? fit out a bit basic to impress wife and kids!? have looked at 3 or 4 and havent fallen in love) 15-22k
Jeanneau 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside! looked at an absolutely immaculate one which has now sold) 33k
Delphia 29 Lifting (slow? nice and new inside!) 34k
Moody 31 Mk2 Bilge (too big for kids to think they are sailing it?! old? fast enough, have looked at some manky ones!) 30k

Cheers

Rob
Click to expand...

You might want to add a Westerly Fulmar to the list. We moved on to a bilge keel one in good nick ( just over £30k)and have been very pleased with the extra space as the kids have grown ( currently 6 and 10), plus while its not quite so easy to handle as the 25ft Delta is reassuring to know it has taken some rougher weather and bigger sea states with more ease than the Delta. (BTW the 272 and the 26 are both slightly stretched versions of the Delta, essentially the same hull.)
All that said in praise of the Fulmar I do miss surfing down wind with the kite up in F4-5 in the Delta often getting more than 10 knots on the log, but thats probably the dinghy racer in me!
 
Don't want to be a part pooper, but it wouldn't be me. We looked at lifting keels including small Southerly's but decided on a bilge keel. Harbours like Aberdour, Limekilns etc have mud, but the mud has stones, rocks and chunky bits of metal in it. While you might only plan to take the ground when there are no waves (you can't rule out a passing tanker), you can't know for sure that there will be no waves when the tide comes back in ...so you don't know how much of a bashing the hull will take.

Sand as found in Elie is incredibly hard stuff when your pride and joy is being dropped from a mere foot. Have you tried drying out in a bilge keel in these harbours to give you an idea of what your unprotected hull can expect?

For what it's worth my advice is to opt for a bilge keel, it gives you more cruising choices ...and future proofs you against Port Edgar closing down. Good luck whatever you decide.
 
yodave said:
Don't want to be a part pooper, but it wouldn't be me. We looked at lifting keels including small Southerly's but decided on a bilge keel. Harbours like Aberdour, Limekilns etc have mud, but the mud has stones, rocks and chunky bits of metal in it. While you might only plan to take the ground when there are no waves (you can't rule out a passing tanker), you can't know for sure that there will be no waves when the tide comes back in ...so you don't know how much of a bashing the hull will take.

Sand as found in Elie is incredibly hard stuff when your pride and joy is being dropped from a mere foot. Have you tried drying out in a bilge keel in these harbours to give you an idea of what your unprotected hull can expect?

For what it's worth my advice is to opt for a bilge keel, it gives you more cruising choices ...and future proofs you against Port Edgar closing down. Good luck whatever you decide.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmm you have comprehensively pooped my party!! Obviously you are probably right. Its just I have been racing in 707s recently and out in a Beneteau 211 so have rash ideas of speed and a PY handicap in 3 figures!!!!!!

But as I have promised my kids and my mates nights away in the Forth I think the sensible way forward is bilge!! So back to the other options. I sort of feel I should start at about 27 ft rather than 31 to make things cheaper and easier to handle, also to make it easier for my 10 & 12 year old kids to join in. So will look at some more Hunter 272s which is where I started!! Hunter Ranger 265s seem to have been ballooned and rate worse on PY I think. Will look at a Moody 31 Mk 2 Bilge next week. The race I was in last night at Port Edgar didn't have anyone out in a bilge keel yacht and nothing with a PY more than 1100.

Cheers

Rob
 
yodave said:
Jings, I feel bad now.
Click to expand...

I was only joking! You have probably saved me £25k and a smashed boat!!

If you want to make it up to me you can tell me the harbours you have found are good for a night away.

And also enlighten me on what actually happens when you try and dry in these places for a night. I have done plenty of sailing in the last couple of years but always overnighted on the west coast on an anchor or a mooring. So no bumps in the night. I am planning leaving Port Edgar at 9 on a Saturday, sailing to somewhere, eating tea on the boat, then in the pub til 11! Then coming back to find the boat hanging on the mooring ropes as I have forgotten that the water level is going to go down by 4 metres!! How have you found sleeping whilst drying? Have you been awake all night checking the warps and whether you have settled ok? Or is it easier than I think??!!

Cheers

Rob
 
West to East along Fife coast; Limekilns is a nice village, Aberdour is good too, Dysart is picturesque but we wouldn't go back, Elie good but visitor berth bumpy, Anstruther good.

There are plenty of other harbours, but many unsuitable for 32 footers. Also many others that don't appeal to us but might appeal to you or others. Can't comment on the Edinburgh side as we haven't done any of them yet.

We just stay with the boat until she takes the ground adjusting the ropes as required. Sleeping usually not too bad, but that depends on the berth position and weather. Dysart's visitor berth is at the mouth of the harbour, and the night we were there the waves were coming directly in to our stern - v bumpy, v noisey!

It's not rocket science and you get used to it, so don't let it put you off!
 
yodave said:
West to East along Fife coast; Limekilns is a nice village, Aberdour is good too, Dysart is picturesque but we wouldn't go back, Elie good but visitor berth bumpy, Anstruther good.

There are plenty of other harbours, but many unsuitable for 32 footers. Also many others that don't appeal to us but might appeal to you or others. Can't comment on the Edinburgh side as we haven't done any of them yet.

We just stay with the boat until she takes the ground adjusting the ropes as required. Sleeping usually not too bad, but that depends on the berth position and weather. Dysart's visitor berth is at the mouth of the harbour, and the night we were there the waves were coming directly in to our stern - v bumpy, v noisey!

It's not rocket science and you get used to it, so don't let it put you off!
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. So I have Limekilns, Aberdour and Anstruther on my hitlist. Also a newfangled anchor for calm nights off the islands from an earlier thread. Granton pontoons. Dunbar etc to explore later. All I need is a boat!!!!! With bilge keels!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

xyachtdave
Marine Engines Direct Limited
Replies
11
Views
852
xyachtdave
xyachtdave
M
net worth of yacht brokers
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Tranona
T

Share this page

Top