Pantaenius Insurance-Differences between Australia and UK

[Bish]

Hi, I was just reminded of this on another forum. I live in Australia and earlier this year I was looking for insurance for my newly purchased sailing yacht. It came down to Pantaenius or Club Marine. I preferred the Pantaenius cover and the prices were similar.

Then I found this clause: "Single Handed Warranty - No single handed sailing allowed before dawn or after sunset."

Do UK policies also have this restriction, or is it just something specific to Australia?

Silly clause from my point of view and potentially dangerous trying to comply if it comes up rough. Needless to say I went with Club Marine who seem to have a more realistic handle on sailing.

 

[macd]

Silly clause from my point of view and potentially dangerous trying to comply if it comes up rough.

Can't help you on policy wording in Europe, but would think that condition unenforceable in certain circumstances. Say your intended port has a bar with breaking waves when "it comes up rough": no insurer can require you to put your boat (and self) at what a prudent skipper would see as risk. And how would it be in their interests to do so? But one might want to ask the insurer's take on this before handing over the premium.

 

[pyrojames]

Certainly not a condition on my Pants policy. Nor was it on my policy when I was in Oz. Discuss it with them and see what they say. I seem to remember that Club M of the few useful Oz insurers 20 years ago, but not very impressive even then.

 

[laika]

A lack of restrictions and straightforward wording was the main reason I went with them in the first place and I recall specifically asking about single handing (not that it's something I'd do by choice with my boat). I notice they only send the policy schedule by email these days so I checked online. Wording seems to be here:
http://www.pantaenius.co.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/uk/PUKAR/Policie_AllRiskUK_0915_web.pdf
No mention of single handing at all as far as I can see

 

[Bish]

Yes exactly Mac, that wording was pretty specific though and I spoke at length with a sales person and they wouldn’t budge.

 

[macd]

Yes exactly Mac, that wording was pretty specific though and I spoke at length with a sales person and they wouldn’t budge.

Yes, daft. I imagine the policy schedule also includes something along the lines of not recklessly putting the vessel in danger. If so, which condition prevails?

Anyway, good luck with the other mob. Pantaenius is generally perceived as close to godliness in the UK, but I have heard some less than reassuring tales about them elsewhere.

 

[awol]

No single-handed restriction on my Pantaenius policy, in fact one of my reasons for rejecting Y Yacht with their 18 hour limitation. Dawn to sunset is less than 6 hours in the north of British Isles at mid-winter.

 

[temptress]

Hi, I was just reminded of this on another forum. I live in Australia and earlier this year I was looking for insurance for my newly purchased sailing yacht. It came down to Pantaenius or Club Marine. I preferred the Pantaenius cover and the prices were similar.

Then I found this clause: "Single Handed Warranty - No single handed sailing allowed before dawn or after sunset."

Do UK policies also have this restriction, or is it just something specific to Australia?

Silly clause from my point of view and potentially dangerous trying to comply if it comes up rough. Needless to say I went with Club Marine who seem to have a more realistic handle on sailing.

HI

we are insured with Pantaenius in the UK and there is no exclusion on Single handed sailing. In fact when renewing the policy I specifically asked and was told (in writing) that Single Handing is covered. Insure from the UK or Germany. You don't have to buy insurance in your home country..

 

[[70521]]

I'm not with Pantaenius, but have a specific clause in my policy allowing single handed sailing between the hours between sunset and sunrise. Speak with the company and agree the cover.

 

[Bish]

Certainly not a condition on my Pants policy. Nor was it on my policy when I was in Oz. Discuss it with them and see what they say. I seem to remember that Club M of the few useful Oz insurers 20 years ago, but not very impressive even then.

They must have changed policy conditions recently. Maybe a spike in claims from single handers with mishaps after dark. Anyway I did query it and it was even taken up the food chain for consideration, but to no avail. Still a stupid stipulation that will loose them customers no doubt. I was really just interested in whether they had the same restrictions in the UK.

 

[Bish]

HI

we are insured with Pantaenius in the UK and there is no exclusion on Single handed sailing. In fact when renewing the policy I specifically asked and was told (in writing) that Single Handing is covered. Insure from the UK or Germany. You don't have to buy insurance in your home country..

Ah that's interesting Temptress, I didn't realise that it might be possible to insure through Pantaenius UK for example. I'll check that out when my renewal is coming up. I did query this clause and they wouldn't allow it.

 

[Bish]

Yes, daft. I imagine the policy schedule also includes something along the lines of not recklessly putting the vessel in danger. If so, which condition prevails?

Anyway, good luck with the other mob. Pantaenius is generally perceived as close to godliness in the UK, but I have heard some less than reassuring tales about them elsewhere.

Yes Mac, I suspect some non boating accountant type made a restriction here based solely on a blip in claims. Pity really as I preferred everything else about their cover.

Club Marine here in Aus are pretty popular and well regarded, so I think they'll be fine. Maybe Pantaenius will come to their senses down the track... I gather they may use local underwriters in other countries and they may be limiting what the policies offer?

 

[Bish]

No single-handed restriction on my Pantaenius policy, in fact one of my reasons for rejecting Y Yacht with their 18 hour limitation. Dawn to sunset is less than 6 hours in the north of British Isles at mid-winter.

Yes I can see that being a hassle awol. For me it was the opposite and not wanting that kind of restriction over winter. Down here in Tasmania the sun is setting around 4.30 midwinter, so nipping out after work, for a weekend away, on a Friday afternoon would have been impossible.

 

[Tranona]

Ah that's interesting Temptress, I didn't realise that it might be possible to insure through Pantaenius UK for example. I'll check that out when my renewal is coming up. I did query this clause and they wouldn't allow it.

Think you will find that the restriction on single handed sailing is becoming more common as a standard term with many insurers, but is often open to negotiation on an individual basis. However, if the decision by an insurer is based on claims experience then it is difficult to argue that it is unreasonable. After all insurance is all about risk.

 

[BabaYaga]

HI

we are insured with Pantaenius in the UK and there is no exclusion on Single handed sailing. In fact when renewing the policy I specifically asked and was told (in writing) that Single Handing is covered. Insure from the UK or Germany. You don't have to buy insurance in your home country..

Ah that's interesting Temptress, I didn't realise that it might be possible to insure through Pantaenius UK for example. I'll check that out when my renewal is coming up. I did query this clause and they wouldn't allow it.

If you are considering this, it might be useful to know that P:s terms and conditions appear to be less favourable in the UK compared to some other European countries (with regards to other aspects than that being discussed here).
See post #28 in this thread (my findings are now a couple of years old, but my T&C:s are unchanged):
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?416732-Insurance&p=5079208#post5079208

 

[Seven Spades]

GJW have a similar clause which is standard but you can request to have the restriction removed.

 

[capnsensible]

There is clearly a joke here about having to declare 'previous convictions' but its probably best not mentioned.

 

[Malo37]

My Pantaenius policy had no restrictions other than geographical limits. They were also ridiculously expensive and after 6 years I changed to a different company with very similar cover for just over half the cost.

 

[LadyInBed]

My Pantaenius policy had no restrictions other than geographical limits. They were also ridiculously expensive and after 6 years I changed to a different company with very similar cover for just over half the cost.

Don't be shy, who did you change to?

 

[ashtead]

The reasons for any differences might be down to different underwriters carrying the actual risk in each location. pants might have licensed the use of their brand inAus but to a different company which then has a different panel of insurers or if not a licence of brand it's just use of different providers as different insurers have a better appetite to appoint Pants in different countries so offer better commissIon rates in one country to another.