PanPan on Mon 4th, off Wootten Creek- Thank You

[Enya]

Pan Pan

Ryde Lifeboat is funded by donations _ I know as I was pulled off by them when I ran aground. Make sure yours is a generous one.

 

[salinia]

From one 23ft boat owner to another I would suggest that you fit an outboard bracket to the transom like this Pageant owner did and carry a small outboard.

Should something like this happen again you would be able to get yourself out of trouble and it would give you some peace of mind. BTW in your circumstances I to would have taken the same action, pleased all went well for you.

 

[Blue5]

I had cause to make a call to Solent Coastguard last week whilst out on Zara, our Westerly Pageant, returning from Newtown Creek heading towards Ryde.

I am 100% with Ken.

Only mistake I can see is posting it on here. You were happy with the call you made, nobody got hurt nothing got damaged, = result.

Do not be influenced by any negative critisism on here, situations at sea can quickly go from bad to worse and an early call to the CG with the information will allow them to asess the situation and deal with it accordingly.

 

[silver-fox]

I was anchored in Osbourne bay when we heard your Pan Pan, we were ready to up anchor to come and assist if needed, so we listened in to see what sort of vessel you were etc. a couple of points struck me.

You were in a 23ft sailing boat, in 6 metres of water there was 10 knots of true breeze, tide was taking you west and would be for the next 4 hours.

You say in you post you were able to go "down wind for a time" so where was the problem? You'd missed the tide, your engine wasn't working

You were trying to fight wind and tide, and in a sailing boat there is usually only one victor, and it ain't you...nature is more powerful than you and your time table.

Sail down wind, down tide until you were clear, round up and drop the anchor then assess the situation.

Alert the coastguard by all means if you really want to, but if it was me I wouldn't have used ch 16, I would have called them up on 67 their working channel, and let them know if I felt the need, which I probably wouldn't. You don't have to use securitie, pan pan or mayday.

You could have anchored for a few hours until the tide slackened then had a lovely sail back down the Solent with the tide.

Alternatively while you were anchored up you could have joined Seastart

Absolutely agree; don't know the exact locale but why not sail into shallower water out of reach of any ferry, anchor and wait for the tide to change?

Please don't misunderstand me, I have made some real big mistakes at sea and sympathise with the predicament. I am just concerned that the whole culture/ decision making is wrong and being reinforced by other posters.

The process invoked is for emergencies or situations that could develop into an emergency. A sailing boat in a 10 knot wind without an engine is very far from that. There was no threat to life or boat, or even a developing threat unless you persisted trying to sail upwind and uptide amongst ferries and even then in 10 knots you should have been able to keep out of their way.

I fully appreciate its better safe than sorry but lets not, as a sailing community, descend into the 999 scenario which is so misused that people ring when they have missed the last bus home or lost their house keys.

Again, speaking generally and not about this specific incident, if securitie, pan and mayday calls become frequent and inappropriate, the attitude and quality of response inevitably degrades. Who these days takes any notice of a burglar alarm?

 

[Conachair]

I must admit that I wondered about the relevance of a Pan Pan, however I looked Pan Pan up in Wikipedia as my memory of definitions from my VHF course has long diminished: -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan

If I defer to the Wiki explanation, which lists a specific example of a Pan Pan to avoid imminent collision with vessel, then I believe that the OP did the right thing.

Note to self: refresh understanding of VHF protocol and procedure.

I had to look it up as well

pan-pan[1] (pronounced /ˈpæn ˈpæn/) is used to signify that there is an urgency on board a boat, ship, aircraft or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself.

Sounds like the right call.

Then -

The CG then informed us that the Ryde Inshore Lifeboat were in the area and would tow us back to Ryde. Within about 10mins, the crew had located us and took us under tow to Ryde....
The Ryde rescue crew were happy that we made the call as they said, its better to inform them than not to and a minor incident escalates into a major problem (and they were a bit bored!!)

So help wasn't requested but the was a lifeboat in the area who gave them a tow.

Sounds like it all went rather well for everyone. Can't see what the fuss is about.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Good Call, Unique To You, Good Post, Good Discussion

We should remember that what could be a pan Pan for one boat and crew, may not be for another, in exactly the same situation. The OP makes a couple of points which elude to the situation being worrisome for them and contributed to the decision process to make a Pan Pan.

As for posting on here, well done, this sort of discussion is exactly the type of topic that makes one think about their actions.

 

[laika]

With apologies for taking a "Thank you" posting as an excellent "What Now SKipper?" discussion opportunity ...

A pan-pan call doesn't implicitly request a particular sort of assistance: Assistance required is part of the call and from his post it doesn't seem that the OP was requesting anything more than awareness. The OP's moteur was "en panne", he was worried he was obstructing the ferries, and wanted to urgently notify them of his situation. The St. Helen. St. Clare and St. Whatevertheotheronesare all look alike to me* and you're going to be wanting to warn the one coming into Wooten creek as well as the one going out so pan-pan rather than trying to call them directly seems like the better option. pan-pan to the coastguard rather than "portsmouth-fishbourne ferries" will be heard by the ferries, alert the CG to the situation, and most importantly has a calming effect on distressed crew. The effectiveness of the boat as a system cannot be considered independently of the crew, and this action apparently had the effect of making the crew more effective for any work (steering/anchoring) which was to follow.

So, my WNS guess is that the pan-pan was correct.

In the real world I'd have probably been too busy turning tail and fleeing to Osborne Bay to think of using the radio, so the OP gets higher marks for correctness than I would have. I hate that ferry.

Not only does the OP+spouse get a "pass mark" for the follow-up, seems they get a distinction for donation to RNLI *and* libation to lifeboat crew.


*I've previously thought AIS wasn't much use in the Solent. Maybe this proves me wrong.

 

[silver-fox]

Conochair

Lets forget about whether a tow was offered and accepted, that's not really the issue

The issue as far as I am concerned is about the PAN PAN urgency call being made when it simply wasn't an urgency and the lack of self reliance that prompted that decision! The official RYA VHF Radio handbook definition is that a PAN PAN indicates that the vessel or crew have a serious problem but are not in a distress situation - ie not in grave and imminent danger.

Examples include:-
-a boat taking on water
-an engine failure with no other means of propulsion but some distance from a lee shore
- injury to crew who needs treatment but whose life is not threatened

All the OP had to do was turn round sail down wind and the problem was solved and that is not an urgency in anyone's book.

Not being able to get home for tea is not an urgency.

 

[lustyd]

Absolutely 100% with what Snooks has said.

Perhaps a VHF call if really in danger of being caught in the path of an approaching ferry. Perhaps directly to the ferry.

Surely if you wait until you're in danger of being hit by the ferry then it's imminend danger and therefore a mayday? That's why we have the pan pan.

 

[Giblets]

We should remember that what could be a pan Pan for one boat and crew, may not be for another, in exactly the same situation. The OP makes a couple of points which elude to the situation being worrisome for them and contributed to the decision process to make a Pan Pan.

As for posting on here, well done, this sort of discussion is exactly the type of topic that makes one think about their actions.

+1

As none of us other than the OP were actually on the yacht at the time it is rather difficult to pontificate on the rights & wrongs of a Pan Pan call in their situation (especially with a worried & upset SWMBO on board - not good! ).

Glad it all turned out OK in the end.

 

[snooks]

+1

As none of us other than the OP were actually on the yacht at the time it is rather difficult to pontificate on the rights & wrongs of a Pan Pan call in their situation (especially with a worried & upset SWMBO on board - not good! ).

So a worried and upset SWMBO is a reason to call Pan Pan?

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

B*****D thing just lost a long post, aaarghh. Right, start again. As some will know, I helped deliver a Bav 300 from Brighton marina to Shoreham Yacht Club yesterday. During the trip it became obvious that after each big wave, the engine slowed from approx. 2200 rpm right down to tickover for about 3-4 seconds before regaining speed. Don't know why, but it did this at least 30 times. TopDonkey (Ian) asked my opinion as to a course of action if the engine died.I immediately said I would put out a pan-pan and then see if we could hoist a bit of sail (genoa would have been my choice, actually) and head back to Brighton - I really didn't and still don't think we'd have had any other choice. The forum's opinion is sought, please.
Sorry for the hi-jack.

 

[Giblets]

So a worried and upset SWMBO is a reason to call Pan Pan?

You haven't been married very long have you, Snooks?

 

[Madhatter]

Agree with the analysis above .

I too am glad no one was hurt but I do have severe reservations about your decsion to put out a PAN PAN.

On balance, it seems you put out a PAN PAN because you couldn't make your port of choice under engine and when other available options that may have been selected such as an alternative destination would have enabled you to resolve the situation without assistance.

Faced with similar engine problems in similar situation we anchored overnight until circumstances better suited an approach under sail. We then contacted the marina in question to advise them I would shortly be coming in under sail and hence would have reduced manoeuvrability in a confined channel.

Both SWMBO and I were happy with this approach. We hold the view that when you take a boat out it is your responsibility to make sure you can bring it back unassisted and that outside assistance should only be sought in extreme circumstances.

Speaking generally, I have a real concern that over frequent invocation of PAN PAN and MAYDAY procedures will lead to more and more heavy handed bureaucracy and legislation.

JEEZ
read the OP

 

[silver-fox]

So a worried and upset SWMBO is a reason to call Pan Pan?

Snooks!

Don't you know anything?

Grave and imminent danger of SWMBO getting upset = Mayday

Serious concern that SWMBO will get upset soon = Pan Pan

SWMBO upset and Adrift and danger to shipping = Securite Securite

 

[BlueChip]

What I dont understand is why when you first had the engine problem you didnt just sail close inshore and drop the hook, then sort your engine out? That whole Northern shore of the Wight from Cowes to Ryde Sands is shallow and pretty well sheltered, no need to sail back to Osborne Bay to anchor, in any case the marked ferry chanel into Fishbourne is only a couple of hundred metres wide at most so it would only take a minute or two to sail clear of any ferries.
Mucking around with diesel in any kind of a seaway is asking for a dose of seasickness, better park up and then sort the problem.

 

[photodog]

So a worried and upset SWMBO is a reason to call Pan Pan?

I think that a crews fitness is THE determining factor as to when/ how to call the coastguard...

A situation that is perfectly copeable for yourself may be beyond the capabilities of someone else, and warrant outside assistance as a result.

The strength and capabilities of the crew are one of the key appraisals a skipper has to make when takeing any decision.

I would not have made that call..... nor yourself.... but I think its pretty clear it was the right call to make at the time for the OP.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I think the OP actions were reasonable. A few years ago my exhaust riser bit the dust and the engine couldn't be used. I was an hour's sail away from our marina, but with the flood tide it took me four hours to sail home. For an hour I was sailing but staying the same place! Never once did I consider calling for assistance. Had the wind died, I might well have done so. Each case is different., but safety sure beats second guessing.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Well Done all Round

Yep, I'm with Ken.

+1 here too, you did the right thing, Mrs W's confidence in her skills boosted, and the ILB got a bit of 'live firing' practice( and some beer!)

 

[simon barefoot]

I totally agree with the OP, why wait until something gets out of hand to accept assistance. He merely alerted the CG to an imminent situation, and accepted freely given help from those around him. He has then made public his actions which I think show a responsibililty to others with less experience/more bravado. Good for him and Mrs W!