Pair of Diesels Wanted

I have just removed a pair of volvo tamd 70c 270hp suitable for a refurb, also a pair of zfIRM 220 gearboxes. They are located in Nottinghamshire if your interested.
 
Make sure you get the more modern 1981 onwards, Ford Dover model.

if you are going for more oomph Dover is far superior to earlier Dorset with FAR less start up smoke, in addition pistons for Dorset have become stupidly expensive.
 
hwmbo said:
Thanks very much, Paul. I think, however, Volvo is the one make I'm avoiding in the light of the expensive spares.
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Id say they could be rebuilt with truck pistons if needed and gaskets too as there a truck based unit, for around the same price as a dover unit (just comparing) to some sabres I last rebuilt.

Good luck with your search, makes sense if your engine beds are already set up for Fords, but one thing to remember, if your on borgwarner gearboxes they wont take any more than 180hp.
 
volvopaul said:
Id say they could be rebuilt with truck pistons if needed and gaskets too as there a truck based unit, for around the same price as a dover unit (just comparing) to some sabres I last rebuilt.

Good luck with your search, makes sense if your engine beds are already set up for Fords, but one thing to remember, if your on borgwarner gearboxes they wont take any more than 180hp.
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just about take 212, but deffo no more. Any way the 180's are less stressed.
 
omega2 said:
just about take 212, but deffo no more. Any way the 180's are less stressed.
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Thanks so much for the reminder about the gearboxes. In fact, I'd assumed that all gearboxes would be able to take the increased HP - but clearly I need to do a bit more homework on this, especially as I do indeed have Borg Warners...
 
hwmbo said:
Thanks so much for the reminder about the gearboxes. In fact, I'd assumed that all gearboxes would be able to take the increased HP - but clearly I need to do a bit more homework on this, especially as I do indeed have Borg Warners...
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Benjamin,

Volvopaul is correct, however thread is starting to spin a little out of control.

What starts out as a simple one in one out job can turn into a nightmare...Keep it simple if you can.

#1 Assuming you have BW 72CR 1.99:1 ratio, maybe 2.49:1, either way 180Hp ish is the 'official' limit. However this was a good tough box and you can go 210 proper Hp and if you need some extra comfort you can shim the oil pressure relief valve. Remember this is a durability not reliability issue.

#2 Forget small displacement motors, you will end up needing new props etc. Remember you have 180 real HP, Volvo 41's at their 200 rating are actually 185 Metric Hp so will offer you nothing. No option.

#3 Other one litre per cylinder motors could be the answer, Perkins Sabre 225 is one Cummins B210 is the other. Both are smoke free engines, however the Sabre 225 ain't 225 Hp, nearer 195 when it comes down to apples comparison with what you already have would not offer a whole lot more. Cummins B210 would suit well, honest 210Hp @ 2600 rpm and nice stong torque curve, extra 100 rpm of rated would probably mean that prop pich would be about right and far better than Sabre wheezy Sabre 225. The bit of a no no with these two is that exhaust is on the opposite side, once again making life complicated.

#4 There are Dover base 212's about, hold out for them. Do not be tempted by high Hp Fords many parts are NO LONGER available, for example there are some pairs of Sabre 370's in the market having been replaced by Cummins and Yanmars, do not go near them, as well as pistons, blocks and some critical gaskets cannot be obtained at any price.
 
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Got to agree with Late Starter, we have 180's, ok they smoke on start up but just keep going, we were offered some 250's, but when we delved into the logistics we decided against the project, it would have entailed, different gearboxes, new props, new shafts, new P brackets, and that was only the obvious mods. Also at the end of the day we would have gained a few knots, but at a cost of more fuel, ask yourself this how often are you able to run at full chat?
 
I really appreciate your thoughts, guys!

Funnily enough, I was thinking about a pair of Sabre 370s. They're coming with 1:1 gearboxes, rather than my existing 2:1 (or maybe 2.5:1 - I haven't got the details in front of me). As I'll be doubling the horsepower, then surely it would make sense to keep the 1:1 'boxes. The shafts are 1 3/4" thick, and the p-brackets very meaty (they're steel so additional beefing-up shouldn't be too difficult if that's needed). Then the props should simply be turned through the water twice as fast... I know it's not that straightforward... but...

Thanks for the heads-up on the Sabre 370s, by the way. I had no idea they used so many bespoke Sabre parts: I thought it was just a case of cooling the air down as much as possible and using a bigger turbocharger. After all, what else is there to fiddle with - other than cylinder-head porting - really just to get as much oxygen in as possible, as quickly as possible.

I wonder what existing Sabre 370 owners do for parts, or have they just all written theirs off and they'll keep on using them until they die and then repower? I might just pose the question on here to see what people are doing about that...
 
hwmbo said:
I wonder what existing Sabre 370 owners do for parts, or have they just all written theirs off and they'll keep on using them until they die and then repower? I might just pose the question on here to see what people are doing about that...
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I think that is the case, its how I see my old Perkins too, once they need any amount of money spending on them they are history.
 
Re Engine

It's not just a case of "heavier" it was the clearance between the hull and the "bigger" props that would be required, then there was the reduction gearbox also required to absorb the additional torque and power, then we start going into "downangle" gearboxes, and etc,etc. as I said it would have turned into a logistical nightmare for a few more knots, which due to the weather and sea conditions in the UK, would probably only be seen twice a year.
 
omega2 said:
It's not just a case of "heavier" it was the clearance between the hull and the "bigger" props that would be required, then there was the reduction gearbox also required to absorb the additional torque and power, then we start going into "downangle" gearboxes, and etc,etc. as I said it would have turned into a logistical nightmare for a few more knots, which due to the weather and sea conditions in the UK, would probably only be seen twice a year.
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I suppose much depends on the type of hull you have. Mine's a semi-planning Nelson. There a few times in the Med when I could have done with a bit more power for more control in big seas. I'm not that fussed about getting from A to B in the quickest possible time...
 
hwmbo said:
I really appreciate your thoughts, guys!

Funnily enough, I was thinking about a pair of Sabre 370s. They're coming with 1:1 gearboxes, rather than my existing 2:1 (or maybe 2.5:1 - I haven't got the details in front of me). As I'll be doubling the horsepower, then surely it would make sense to keep the 1:1 'boxes. The shafts are 1 3/4" thick, and the p-brackets very meaty (they're steel so additional beefing-up shouldn't be too difficult if that's needed). Then the props should simply be turned through the water twice as fast... I know it's not that straightforward... but...

Thanks for the heads-up on the Sabre 370s, by the way. I had no idea they used so many bespoke Sabre parts: I thought it was just a case of cooling the air down as much as possible and using a bigger turbocharger. After all, what else is there to fiddle with - other than cylinder-head porting - really just to get as much oxygen in as possible, as quickly as possible.

I wonder what existing Sabre 370 owners do for parts, or have they just all written theirs off and they'll keep on using them until they die and then repower? I might just pose the question on here to see what people are doing about that...
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1 to 1 gearboxes are years old, fitted in the days when moonrakers were built.

To gain performance you will need big diameter props, spinning small props fast causes cavitation to the point where you just loose speed then the whole exercise is pointless, you also need to geardown to gain torque from the engine, before you invest in anything id talk to Paul at Clements, run it by him exactly what your thinking of, he will put you right where it will end up, its not just a matter of bigger hp at the front and hope it will produce the knots at the other end, as it may not, then you have to ask yourself is it worth going from 188hp to 370 hp for a few knots.

To swing big props you need hull clearance, if you have say 18 inch diameter props and need 24 inch then the whole engineering issue needs to be looked at as p brackets and shaft angle have to be altered, but as I said get good advice before you buy anything.
 
omega2 said:
As I have already pointed out, and it was Paul Williams who did the Maths for us. Ours is an AQUABELL and probably more semi planing than A Nelson. Sorry the only way is a complete rejig of your boat, and that will cost you more that the boat is worth. IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK-hPSW7b88
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That's going at a cracking pace. I'll give Paul a shout. Thanks for the recommendation.
 
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