Paguro 4000 (Farymann) Control Issue

[lawrence_craig]

Hi there,

I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction.

I have an Paguro 4000 Farymann. When I press the start button, there is an audible “buzzing” alarm on the control panel. The generator will start up if I press and hold the start button (buzzing persists), then then generator shuts down if I release the start button. I couldn’t find anything in the documentation. I have tried removing the connections to the sensors however the buzzing/alarm persists. For info, it’s the old type control panel.

Appreciate it in advance.

Many thanks,
Lawrence

 

[Robih]

Lawrence,

I can’t assist myself but I can recommend Advance Yacht Systems who are Romsey, Hampshire based. They’ve been very helpful in supplying parts for my Paguro, I’d say it would be worth making contact and asking.

https://www.advanceyacht.co.uk/

 

[superheat6k]

This will likely be similar for your generator.

Might help with fault diagnosis.

When you press the start button the solenoid coil to KS pulls in and KS1 hold the relay energised. So need to see why this is not happening.

Mastervolt wiring diagram.pdf

 

[Ian_Edwards]

That's how the fuel stop valve worked on my Fasymann based Fischer Panda worked.
It's a "fail safe" option when power is lost to the hold on relay, or the solenoid fuel valve, the engine stops. On the FP, that was electronically controlled, and we renamed it a fail often system.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the diesel engine, but in the FP generator, just a poorly designed control system.
I suggest you check the circuits powering the solenoid fuel stop valve. Knacked relay, loose connections, damaged wiring, or failed control signal.
If you have a good technical manual, that shouldn't be too hard to find and follow, and hopefully fix.
There's a possibility of a TEMPORARY fix, try disconnecting the supply to the relay or solenoid valve (assuming it is a mechanical relay and not a semiconductor switch) then wire a power supply to the hold on relay or solenoid valve on via a manual switch. Make sure that the power supply matches the relay and includes a fuse.
This becomes your stop switch, turn it on before starting and off when you want to stop the generator. In essence bypass the control circuits.
The danger in doing this is if there is some other genuine fault, low oil pressure, high temperature, or an electrical problem in the electrical power side.
I'd only do this if the generator is essential and the boat is a long way from a qualified technician, who can fix it properly.
I did this on my FP , and it worked, but I was fairly sure it was a control problem, it was an intermittent fault, which occurred randomly, on start-up and during normal running.
The other option I had (according to FP UK) was to take the generator out and send it back to FP.

 

[lawrence_craig]

Thanks. Very helpful. I contacted Advance Yacht Systems. They suspect a failed relay on the PCB on the control panel. Trying to find some options as I would prefer not fork out £600 for a new control panel.

 

[superheat6k]

The diagram I provided for the Mastervolt is likely at least similar to your Paguro as they make many of these small generators which are then re-badged. The Mastervolt Whispa is certainly a generic.

So how about taking out the PCB and taking some photos to identify the relay. I expect this is one of the K Relays in the diagram provided. A suitable relay will likely be available from RS for a few quid.

 

[vas]

+1, only catch is that judging from a couple of such (similar) panels I've seen, relay is soldered on, so need some effort to remove.
having said that, i'm curious how a relay may fail, as in order to start the engine I guess it does energise the circuit to open up the fuel to the h/p pump.
I'd start by cleaning vertigris from all the spade terminals you may find around the engine (solenoid, temp, press sensors, etc) and making sure you have good contact everywhere

 

[vas]

hm,

re-reading the whole thread and OP, I wonder if everything is due to a sender failing hence the buzzing sound as Ian_Edwards mentions above.
don't know what sensors are on your engine but would expect at least temp high and oil low (if you don't have any gauges in the panel but just indicator lights)
fe on mine there was a temp "valve" which would kill the engine if temp went over set level. So in that case, unplugging the single cable from this sender got the engine running (obvs have to check that it's not a real issue but wouldn't be on a cold engine!) Effecrively a closed circuit on that sender was grounding (via the engine block) the signal, activating a bypass so to speak on the pcb and killing the fuel energising relay.
Similarly, oil pressure, if pressure is low, again system grounds and kills the relay.
My money would be on either of these two senders or their wiring failing.
V. simple pcbs don't like water though as mine was found floating in an inch of water due to a silly mistake and died.

I'd definitely have a go at cable wiggling and removing single cables from their senders and checking when the buzzing stops
I know not very professional but imho proper PBO

 

[lawrence_craig]

Thanks for your persistence in helping me with this issues!

Thought along the same lines as you, pulled the sensors cables (exhaust temp, oil) but the buzzing still occurs when starting. The only thing I haven't tried if it's a signal from the fuel solenoid, although suspect that as this is ultimately part of the control circuit, failure would not stop the generator from starting.

Worst case is I purchase a new CP and it's not the failure.

 

[vas]

no worries, just back from a conference and killing time before going out exploring the city

interesting, mine being fresh water cooled there's this temp sensor I mentioned above next to the thermostat housing, and there's nothing on the exhaust to measure temp - guess yours is a raw water cooled engine?

AFAIK, the fuel solenoid is not a signal TO the PCB, it simply GETS current from the PCB to erergise.
Wouldn't have any reason (in such a simple setup) to have a feedback from the solenoid back to the pcb.

one more Q, before the issue, would turning the key to ON (or whatever you have in the panel!) but before pressing start, would you get a buzzing sound which would stop once the engine was running, or was it silent?

 

[lawrence_craig]

Yes, its Raw Water cooled.

My thoughts as well on the fuel solenoid.

The panel has no key as such. You simply press Start and it starts to crank it. The buzzing/alarm persists as long as you press the start button. The engine will start up and run as long as you want as long as you have the start button engaged.

 

[vas]

OK, so before the problem would you hear the buzzing on initial press of the Start key or not?
and silly Q, is the starter running as long as you keep the Start button pressed?
if yours is like mine running at 3k rpm and in it's box, you wont hear the starter running (you'll know when it stops working and you have to fork a couple of hundred quid for a new one )

V.

 

[lawrence_craig]

It never used to buzz upon starting.

I am not sure if the starter keeps running, if I keep the start button engaged, would this not keep the starter engaged?

 

[vas]

Yep and kill the starter!