Ownership glitches?

[RichardS]

Not from the "needing cover" point of view, but how about fro, the "utmost good faith" and "fraud" points of view? The proposal seems to rely on withholding information from the insurance company and that is rarely a good idea.

I understand .... but with a car and fronting it is the driver that is being insured because there is a legal requirement to do so. Insurance companies will obviously take a dim view if the person you say is driving most of the time to get a lower premium is not actually the one who is driving most of the time. With a boat it is the boat which is being insured so you can just tell your insurance company that it will be your Father or whoever who will be using the boat most of the time.

My insurance Company have no idea who is using my boat although, judging by how often it gets shifted around the marina when I'm not there, neither do I. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[Wansworth]

I would obviously advise the insurance company and listen to their opinion.Have sent email to one on the south coast explaining fullythe idea..

 

[JumbleDuck]

I understand .... but with a car and fronting it is the driver that is being insured because there is a legal requirement to do so. Insurance companies will obviously take a dim view if the person you say is driving most of the time to get a lower premium is not actually the one who is driving most of the time. With a boat it is the boat which is being insured so you can just tell your insurance company that it will be your Father or whoever who will be using the boat most of the time.

I see what you mean, but I think that upfrontness with the insurers is probably the best bet.

 

[Mister E]

How about giving a share of the boat with the daughter with both names on the SSR .
Also both names as co owners on the insurance.

 

[Quandary]

Can't understand the problem, most of our boats have been owned by my wife, she allowed me to use it as much as I like, she even allowed me to do all the maintenance, I was named on the insurance documents in much the same way as I am as second driver on her car. She got fed up with the arrangement when I refused to give up the filthy habit, she just gave me the boat and I took over the ownership responsibility.

 

[Wansworth]

Been in contact with insurance co and they are happy to give me a quote as my daughter will be a proper owner and will let me use the boat.

 

[prv]

Do marine insurers get as cross about "fronting" as motor insurers?

I don't think so. I checked the wording on ours a few years ago to see what it said about who used the boat, and the answer was very little. It did not permit commercial chartering, and if the "speedboat clause" was operative (vessel capable of over 20 knots) then the insured had to be driving or supervising the driver, but otherwise no stipulations at all as far as I remember.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't think so. I checked the wording on ours a few years ago to see what it said about who used the boat, and the answer was very little. It did not permit commercial chartering, and if the "speedboat clause" was operative (vessel capable of over 20 knots) then the insured had to be driving or supervising the driver, but otherwise no stipulations at all as far as I remember.

I suppose that since there are generally no qualification or experience requirements, insurers might well not care very much. I was certainly surprised about how relaxed GJW were when I asked them about a delivery. Anyone I permitted, paid or not, basically.

 

[Tranona]

I suppose that since there are generally no qualification or experience requirements, insurers might well not care very much. I was certainly surprised about how relaxed GJW were when I asked them about a delivery. Anyone I permitted, paid or not, basically.

Think that relaxed attitude is because the majority of claims are for damage not caused by the "driver" and the claims where the "driver" is responsible are relatively low value.

Essentially the risk is the same irrespective of who is in charge of the boat, although this changes, I think when you want insurance for sailing in more risky places. My insurer wanted to know the qualifications of my skipper for crossing Biscay.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Regarding ownership of boats and liability. If there is a claim against the boat and for whatever the reason the insurance company will not pay out, would liability be spread across the owners, assuming a case was decided against the boat? I would want to know this before committing my daughter to an ownership deal, especially if she had no interest in sailing the boat.

 

[Birdseye]

I live most of the time abroad but keep my boatin the UK.This presents various problems of getting SSR number and insuranceas the insurance company’s want a UK address.I was pondering the idea of selling my boat to my daughter who lives in the Uk so all would be legit.But would I be able to use the boat.Maybe a written agreement to let me use the boat.Any thoughts on this idea?, thanks

SSR doesnt matter - it isnt a serious bit of paper so just put your daughters address on it anyway.Who ever heard of the MCA checking the precisie details and would it matter if they did?

Insurance is a serious issue. Do you stay with your daughter? Can you legitimately say that he address is your UK address. You dont need to own the house or even rent it - just having it as a residence would do in my view. Problem here of course is that if you ask the junior employee on the other end of the phone you will get a bum covering answer. Somehow you need to get through to someone at a more senior level. Either way, make sure you record any agreement with the insurance company in writing and not on a deniable email.

 

[prv]

would liability be spread across the owners, assuming a case was decided against the boat?

I know maritime law can be weird, but I'm not convinced that the concept of a case being decided against the boat is valid, for a marina ding between yachts.

If I damage someone's front wall using a hammer, it's me that is liable. If I crush their prize garden gnome with a fridge that falls off the trolley I'm wheeling past, likewise the liability lies with me, no matter that it's my neighbour's fridge I'm delivering. Is the concept really so different when the implement of destruction is 5000kg of fibreglass being mishandled instead of 50kg of sheetmetal and plastic?

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Regarding ownership of boats and liability. If there is a claim against the boat and for whatever the reason the insurance company will not pay out, would liability be spread across the owners, assuming a case was decided against the boat? I would want to know this before committing my daughter to an ownership deal, especially if she had no interest in sailing the boat.

You can't claim against the "boat" - only against a person who is liable - that is has been negligent. Does not matter if he is the owner, one of joint owners or even not an owner at all. Normally all users of the boat if the policy allows are insured against third party claims.

The reason for having both owners on the insurance is because both have an interest in the boat. So if it gets written off for whatever reason the insurer should ensure that payments are made to all "owners" on the policy.

So, your daughter (like my wife who is never in charge of the boat) cannot be negligent, although her interest in the boat is insured.

 

[BrianH]

SSR doesnt matter - it isnt a serious bit of paper so just put your daughters address on it anyway.Who ever heard of the MCA checking the precisie details and would it matter if they did?

Since the rules for part I registration were relaxed, mainly reducing the ownership paper-trail to just five years, the MCA seems to have taken an interest in bogus address use for non-resident Part III (SSR) applications. A British friend permanently resident in Austria and using his brother's UK address had his SSR renewal queried. He has no idea how they rumbled him but with the reminder in the communication of having signed a formal document with the associated warning of false declaration, plus the implication of having involved his brother in aiding and abetting such, he cancelled his renewal.