Overwintering in Greece

[lurob]

We're planning to cruise Greece next summer and are starting to plan ahead for winter.

What recommendations do you have for safe locations for overwintering in Greece? Options for both in (with us living aboard) and out of the water (leaving the boat unattended) would be appreciated.

 

[Tranona]

There is a huge choice ranging from just leaving the boat in a local harbour to a full service marina. Suggest you familiarise the area by getting hold of Rod Heikell's Greek Waters Pilot and then focus on a particular area. The Ionian is the most obvious general area as there is plenty of choice and reasonable access to UK. Generally speaking there is no need to book well in advance and many people arrive in the spring, spend the summer cruising and then decide where to hole up for the winter.

 

[rivonia]

Good day, I would have thought that by now you would have been bombarded with everyone telling you how great it is where they are!

As suggested research first.This is our first winter in the Med. We are in the Ionian at Lefkas. Full service marina BUT very expensive for haul out/chocking/pressure wash. We shall go to Prevaza for haul out as it is much cheaper and all inclusive. Well that is what we have been told, we are going to find out for ourselfs in a few days time.

There are so many places to end up in so Good Luck. Any questions let me know.

Peter

 

[vyv_cox]

Greece is a big country, so you need to be a little more specific about where you intend to be. We have overwintered at Preveza Marine, Kilada and Leros. Slightly contrary to Tranona's post, both of the former were fully booked by August last season, so you would need to make some provision beforehand. Having said that, there are alternatives not too far away but the most popular ones fill up early.

 

[rivonia]

Greece is a big country, so you need to be a little more specific about where you intend to be. We have overwintered at Preveza Marine, Kilada and Leros. Slightly contrary to Tranona's post, both of the former were fully booked by August last season, so you would need to make some provision beforehand. Having said that, there are alternatives not too far away but the most popular ones fill up early.

Not anymore Vyv, most are empty, but of course August is always very busy. It might interesting,
to do a poll on liveaboard marinas; How full is your marina?. What do you think?

Peter

 

[vyv_cox]

This was sent to me at the beginning of last season by the Kilada yard:

If you have decided to come back next fall we strongly recommend booking in as soon as possible in order to avoid misunderstandings. The boats that will come without a reservation will be served in a first to come first to serve base, or , even worst will not be able to be served .

When I returned to Kilada at the beginning of the 2010 season it gave every impression of being extremely crowded. I was told by both the yards mentioned at the end of the 2010 season that they were full for the winter.

The number of fully paid up berth holders at Leros doubled last season. Many of the new arrivals had left Turkey for economic and political reasons, the latter mainly Israelis.

 

[dirtydogs]

Greece is a big country, so you need to be a little more specific about where you intend to be. We have overwintered at Preveza Marine, Kilada and Leros. Slightly contrary to Tranona's post, both of the former were fully booked by August last season, so you would need to make some provision beforehand. Having said that, there are alternatives not too far away but the most popular ones fill up early.

Can only agree with this. Tried to get a friend a booking at Aktio's in Preveza in August for this winter and they were fully booked.

 

[Chris_Robb]

This was sent to me at the beginning of last season by the Kilada yard:

If you have decided to come back next fall we strongly recommend booking in as soon as possible in order to avoid misunderstandings. The boats that will come without a reservation will be served in a first to come first to serve base, or , even worst will not be able to be served .

When I returned to Kilada at the beginning of the 2010 season it gave every impression of being extremely crowded. I was told by both the yards mentioned at the end of the 2010 season that they were full for the winter.

The number of fully paid up berth holders at Leros doubled last season. Many of the new arrivals had left Turkey for economic and political reasons, the latter mainly Israelis.

Vyv, I can confirm that Aktio and Prevesa yards are full, but the Marinas at Prevesa - Cleopatra and at Levkas are very sparsely populated. I understand this is because at Cleopatra they introduced a 15% or up to 30% commission charge on work in the yard. At this point Messolonghi opened at very good rates and the migration began, voting with their feet - or bottoms.

 

[vyv_cox]

Vyv, I can confirm that Aktio and Prevesa yards are full, but the Marinas at Prevesa - Cleopatra and at Levkas are very sparsely populated. I understand this is because at Cleopatra they introduced a 15% or up to 30% commission charge on work in the yard. At this point Messolonghi opened at very good rates and the migration began, voting with their feet - or bottoms.

I don't claim to know anything about Greek marinas as I have never stayed in one. My posts were describing the situation in the more popular yards.

 

[curlysue]

IMHO the yards/marina at Preveza ( Aktio, Preveza marine and Cleopatra )are only suitable if you are leaving the boat and returning home ( or going on elsewhere). They are isolated from Preveza town which you can only get to through a road tunnel ( no pedestrians ). That said they are all seem very proficient at haul outs if that is what you want and all similar prices although Cleopatra is probably the most by a little way. I personally would not want to spend the winter onboard in the water at Cleopatra marina. Very isolated. Interesting however that Dirtydog mentioned Aktio being full. Our friends booked in there as late as September without a problem, and Cleopatra have been extending their site recently so business cannot be that bad for them.
They all offer discounts for cruising club and ( I think ) RYA members.

 

[Sy-Revolution]

Does not the 180 day tax rule apply to Greece? If so is it not problematic to cruise and winter in Greece in the same year?

We're heading for Greece in spring but will most likely winter in Marmaris, mainly to give our son, Wes, the best chance of meeting some friends. Unless there are other options of course.

C.

 

[charles_reed]

Does not the 180 day tax rule apply to Greece? If so is it not problematic to cruise and winter in Greece in the same year?

We're heading for Greece in spring but will most likely winter in Marmaris, mainly to give our son, Wes, the best chance of meeting some friends. Unless there are other options of course.

C.

Noting you're US-flagged - yes, as with all EU countries, VAT-importation rules apply.

Greece, being Greece, it's unlikely you'll be accosted and payment demanded. You could nip into, Croatia or Albania and record the break in your log.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Does not the 180 day tax rule apply to Greece? If so is it not problematic to cruise and winter in Greece in the same year?
C.

Notes from the Cruising Association (CA) with their permission:

How long boats can stay is not related to how long people can stay, a trap many non-EU boats/crews fall into.

If you mean permission for a non-EU yacht to cruise within the EU, the six month initial permission is easily extended to 18 months.

If you mean the Schengen visa relating to immigration rules (Greece is in the Schengen zone), when obtained at a border individuals can only spend 90 days out of 180 in the Schengen zone. However, it is possible to get residence permits allowing longer stays in many Schengen countries. Make enquiries at your embassy in Greece to find the exact possibilities.

 

[anderson]

winter marina

we once spent the winter on board in agi nik marina crete,its in the town and very safe.good and helpfull staff.

 

[Sy-Revolution]

Ahem! I say, we're a British flagged vessel I'll have you know!

I meant the tax residency thing. Not too worried about VAT as the boats '79.

 

[jimbaerselman]

If you spend more than 182 days in a year in any country, you will become tax resident there as a matter of fact. Greece has no interest in this matter if you have EU passports, and they do not police your residence time in the country. You will not be required to re-register your boat

It may be useful for you to obtain a local tax number, since this helps you obtain local services (dongles, mobile phone SIMs). Any EU citizen can obtain a tax number who has an address in Greece (local marina, or care of local tax accountant).

JimB - speaking here as a part time Greek resident

 

[Oliveoyl]

180 /182 day rule

If you spend more than 182 days in a year in any country, you will become tax resident there as a matter of fact. Greece has no interest in this matter if you have EU passports, and they do not police your residence time in the country. You will not be required to re-register your boat

It may be useful for you to obtain a local tax number, since this helps you obtain local services (dongles, mobile phone SIMs). Any EU citizen can obtain a tax number who has an address in Greece (local marina, or care of local tax accountant).

JimB - speaking here as a part time Greek resident

IIRC correctly, there were potential problems if EU cars were in Greece for over 180 days in a rolling 12 month period, and that they would have to be re-registerd. We intend to liveabord for probably 10 months a year, but must remain "principally resident" (whatever that might mean) in Belgium until 2017. If we get Greek tax numbers, I hope we're not liable for Greek income taxes!

 

[Davy_S]

I hope we're not liable for Greek income taxes!

You are NOT liable for Greek income tax unless you own a property. even then, you see an accountant, fill in a return to say you have earned Nothing in Greece, thats 50 europs please, see you next year. Pay any lawyer or accountant the same and they will get you a tax number. People do this on a regular basis, ie they open a bank account with three marbles and get a tax number for if they wish to purchase property. If you want a residency permit, they were deemed illegal to eu residents 2 years ago. So you need to register at the police station, 5 photos, proof of medical insurance E111 passes, proof you can support yourself, (this cannot be more than the basic pension payable to a Greek) possibly around 12 grand in the bank.
There are so many conflicting tales doing the rounds, most of them are complete *ollocks!

Wot Jim said is right!

 

[PLEIAS]

As i can't do that in public cause it will take forever, i'll answer simple tax-questions if you pm me, free of charge, meanwhile please don't offer advice on matters that can get complicated very easily.Thanks marry christmas everybody and let's hope that next year will be better for all of us.

 

[charles_reed]

As i can't do that in public cause it will take forever, i'll answer simple tax-questions if you pm me, free of charge, meanwhile please don't offer advice on matters that can get complicated very easily.Thanks marry christmas everybody and let's hope that next year will be better for all of us.

Typically a moving target - Greek tax laws and, if anything, changing faster as the Pasok government tries to deal with the emergency.

So advice on Greek taxes is phantasmagoric, in the true sense of the word.

My suggestion, just don't attract attention - don't expect explicit or constant rules.