Overloaded charter boat

[2700]

If that is so, the guy is still guilty but the sentence should be lighter. It's amazing that posters above can form a view on the appropriate sentence without knowing the facts

Surely the case is that the boat was carrying more than it had a cert. for. Just because you are asked to do something, or pressured in to it there is no excuse to break the rules. These people were not evacuees from Dunkirk. It was a profit making exercise and as such he should have abided by the rules., ( Others have to, and have to compete against him for business) they are in place for a reason. There may well have been a organizer who knew the situation but I think it unlikely that everyone was aware they were going on what was a potently unsafe offshore trip. The passengers entrusted him with their safety and as the one responsible person with a license granted to him to make the correct decisions it should have been a "no brainer" that you don't exceed the numbers by the amount he did. According to Marine traffic he has AiS so probably DSC and if a incident had occurred be it a fire or whatever, the rescue services would have responded to a vessel in trouble with a max of 12 people on board. They would have been well under resourced. The fine should have be a warning to others. But there again maybe you think that a drunk driver who causes a accident on a country boreen is not as guilty as someone who does the same on a main road.

 

[jfm]

Surely the case is that the boat was carrying more than it had a cert. for. Just because you are asked to do something, or pressured in to it there is no excuse to break the rules...It was a profit making exercise and as such he should have abided by the rules

I agree entirely. There is no excuse for not following the rules. He is guilty and I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm talking about something entirely different, namely the harshness of the sentence. For that you have to look at all the circumstances if you are in anyway civilised

There may well have been a organizer who knew the situation but I think it unlikely that everyone was aware they were going on what was a potently unsafe offshore trip. The passengers entrusted him with their safety

That is entirely speculation by you. That's the whole point I'm making

But there again maybe you think that a drunk driver who causes a accident on a country boreen is not as guilty as someone who does the same on a main road.

How unbelievably rude of you to make such a crass statement. I wouldn't ever think that. You ignorant POS

 

[scottie]

Speculation but what if joe blogs charters a boat plus skipper for day trip and then turns up with 20 bodies all set for day out and intent on going? Again speculation if skipper is hired help is he going to say who goes and who stays?
Still not right but?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Eight extra persons weigh about 700 kg.

Not if they're Irish lads out for a beer or 7. More like 1000kg

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Speculation but what if joe blogs charters a boat plus skipper for day trip and then turns up with 20 bodies all set for day out and intent on going? Again speculation if skipper is hired help is he going to say who goes and who stays?
Still not right but?

I don't see that as a problem. The skipper simply refuses to go out with more than 12 peeps on board. After all it's his freedom, reputation and livelihood thats at stake

 

[alant]

But was the judge accurate to claim the boat was over loaded ?
Surely the offence was exceeding the licence limit of 12 that Mr Stronge requested.



He could have had adequate life jackets and adequate liferafts for all persons on board .

I'm not suggesting the fine was inappropriate, your 5 years may be a little harsh if the judge hadn't been correctly advised during the hearing.

Coded for 12 passengers - ie people who pay!

There are some charter boats who put the excess on as 'voluntary crew', which can then exceed the code.

 

[alant]

Tricky one without knowing the facts. £800 seems a low fine, though 5 years in the clink is ridiculously harsh

What we don't know is the knowledge of the charterers. Sure if they were completely clueless grannies and children who need the protection of the coding rules then the penalty needs to be harsh. At the other end of the scale if it was a group of guys who said "yeah we know it's technically illegal mate and we will bring our own LJs and we're doing this with our eyes open", and the skipper succumbed, then the penalty needs to be small.

You just can't judge unless you know all the evidence

Children under 12 months old, not considered to be 'passengers'.

 

[jfm]

Coded for 12 passengers - ie people who pay!

There are some charter boats who put the excess on as 'voluntary crew', which can then exceed the code.

That's a bit of an old wives' tale imho. There is an upper limit of 12 pax AND separately the boat has a maximum coded number of persons on board. The universal limit of 12 pax applies across nearly all boats but there is no similar universal limit on max number of people. Many superyachts will be 40 total people out of which 12 can be passengers for example. It is incredibly unlikely a Princess 55 would/could be coded for more than 12pax + 3 crew and once its coded limit (say 14) is reached you cannot legally add crew willy nilly.

 

[jfm]

... if skipper is hired help...

The boat might not then be on charter but if it were the owner can (and would) be prosecuted so the skipper wouldn't get all the flak for following his boss's instructions

 

[DAKA]

His insurance is invalid for the number of peeps on board - so his £3M or £5M 3rd party liability ain't valid either. And a £ to a penny he didn't have 22 lifejackets (for the guests) 20 + the 2 spares required on board

Is Insurance a legal requirement for a sea passage ? I assumed it was just a licensing requirement.

Ditto on the lifejackets but its a bit unfair to assume he hadnt got the right spec gear on board.



His offence is serious and he should have been fined.

The offence was exceeding the license as he had requested one that wasnt adequate for his requirements.

In my opinion the summary as reported was wrong as there appeared to be no mention of exceeding the license , only of being over loaded which almost certainly wasn't proven.

Its only a snap shot and we need more detail but it leaves me with the impression the magistrate hadnt been well informed during the process.

Perhaps a deal was done and Mr Stronge was happy to keep quiet accepting £800 was fair and reasonable without the need to rock the boat further.

 

[Bassplayer]

Perhaps a deal was done and Mr Stronge was happy to keep quiet accepting £800 was fair and reasonable without the need to rock the boat further.

Wouldn't want to rock the boat too much if it was overloaded anyway

 

[DAKA]

Wouldn't want to rock the boat too much if it was overloaded anyway

Wouldn't want to rock the boat too much if it was overloaded anyway

OK nice one but can we please stop assuming he was overloaded.
20 people weigh about a ton, Im sure most of us have accumulated heaps more than a ton of equipment onto our boats over the years, much of which would have to be offloaded to make space for 20 mates , we frequently carry about a tonne of fuel/water does that make us all overloaded .


I'm sure boats under 55ft operate year round around the Scottish islands coded for more than 12 passengers.

All I am saying is that it is wrong for some to suggest a prison sentence just because he underestimated how popular his business was going to be.
The ones demanding prison appear to be basing their conclusion on the possibly incorrect summing up by the magistrate.

 

[Reds]

Speculation but what if joe blogs charters a boat plus skipper for day trip and then turns up with 20 bodies all set for day out and intent on going? Again speculation if skipper is hired help is he going to say who goes and who stays?
Still not right but?

It has never occurred to me since, but the first time we ever went on a boat many years ago we chartered a 25-30ft bow rider with a skipper. I don't think we were ever asked how many of us would be on the boat but 12 of us showed up ! I'd hate to think we got anyone in trouble for our own ignorance but we would have been livid had we not been allowed to board- tricky for the skipper.

 

[Steve Clayton]

OK nice one but can we please stop assuming he was overloaded.

I never said he was overloaded. (Bit like a lift - maximum of 8 people).
He was operating outside the regulations prescribed by MCA for charter activity - that being 12 passengers; (be they paying or not). Not by just 1 or 2 additional peeps but at least 8 - and from the reports possibly more!!

It doesn't matter whether the boat has the capability to carry more. He MUST have known that he was breaking the regs as prescribed; and what for? a bit more money in his pocket probably and he also MUST have known that by doing so he was voiding his insurance; he took a risk and lost.

At the worst, and with no insurance, he was in major breach of his duty of care to his passengers - so what would you do: eg would you let him continue delivering charter activities?, ban him from chartering for say 2 years?, get the local Council to take him off their accredited register of leisure & pleasure activities? or......

If 20 people paid £100 each (as per either of his 2 websites) and he is fined £800 he's still up by £1200. It's almost worth him doing it again.

 

[Searush]

(snip)
I'm sure boats under 55ft operate year round around the Scottish islands coded for more than 12 passengers.

(snip).

Our trip to Staffa was on a boat around 50' loa & carried 50 passengers. I was gobsacked when I counted. It was in no way overloaded, but there wasn't any room to wander around!

Our boat returning to collect us;

Conditions on board;

 

[oldgit]

"we frequently carry about a tonne of fuel/water does that make us all overloaded ."




Think that your fuel /water will be nice and low down in the boat,not all hanging over the coaming on the starboard/port side ogling the girls/blokes on the nudist beach next door?

 

[Steve Clayton]

Our trip to Staffa was on a boat around 50' loa & carried 50 passengers. I was gobsacked when I counted. It was in no way overloaded, but there wasn't any room to wander around!

Completely different set of rules and coding regs for the vessel you were on.

Chat later- gotta pack now for SF, LA, Cook Islands, NZ and Oz

 

[jfm]

...(be they paying or not)...

The question of whether they were paying is crucial. If they weren't the 12pax rule does not apply

he was in major breach of his duty of care to his passengers.

How do you know that? You don't; you're just guessing. If, for example, the passengers all pressurised him and egged him on, and he warned them of the risks, he would have no material relevant duty of care because his customers would have constructively waived it.

 

[oceanfroggie]

This thread is smacks a little of "flog'em and hang'em high" without all the facts and therefore tricky to come to an informed opinion.

 

[DAKA]

Conditions on board;

They dont look over happy, I reckon they should have taken a Princess 50 booze cruise instead