Ove for Volvopaul (or anyone else familiar with IPS oil)

[MapisM]

A friend of mine just found that in one of his IPS the oil looks like in the video below.
The boat has only been used for a couple of hours after grabbing a line with the props (which is probably the culprit), and since then she didn't move anymore for the last two weeks.

Not good news obviously, but this chap was expecting to start his well deserved holidays right now, hence the sixty-four thousand dollar question:
How risky would it be for the transmission to keep using the boat for this month, before hauling her out for prop shaft seals replacement (as I suppose will be necessary)?

IPS 500 of 2010 vintage, if that matters.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Kawasaki]

Its hard to tell from that video but the fluid looks really emulsified
I wouldn't risk it

 

[Portofino]

If that’s just “2 hrs and two weeks “ then there’s only one direction / concentration that water in oil is gonna go after a month of use .
I guess it either sucks it in when running or when stopped - cools down + pressure differential of the bottom of the pod 1,6 M down and the breather air vent in the ER ?

It’s gonna need doing ( new seal or what ever ) so why hesitate .
Let’s hope after it’s done your friend can do a long trip to in a man maths or real maths way claw back the expense in alleged fuel savings ??

Chucking money at it is the easy bit , restoring lost down time with prearranged families impossible.

 

[[2068]]

The gear teeth are designed to mesh with a thin film of oil of the right spec between them.

Seriously emulsified oil has really quite different lubrication and cooling characteristics, and running at speed risks trashing the gear set.

If I was the owner, I would be running on the other engine at displacement speeds until I could get it fixed.
6kts is not so bad, compared to the cost of an IPS drive.

.

 

[volvopaul]

The advice I will give is if there is the slightest amount of water in an IPS unit don’t even run the engines get it lifted and drained straight away and source the point of water ingress which is usually the shaft seals .

 

[MapisM]

Blimey P, can it really be that bad? Not that I remotely dare arguing with your competence and experience, mind.

In the meantime, further checks revealed that also the oil in the other unit is in similar conditions, so the concern is that the line grabbed with the propellers of one pod has nothing to see with the infiltration, which might be due to plain wear and/or aging of some seals instead.
The engines/pods are 2010 vintage as I said, and they clocked less than 700 hours.
Btw, the boat has always been kept on the hard and sheltered for about half of each year.

The local yard is suggesting to pull the pods down for replacement of all seals, and also of the clutch with an upgraded one, while they are at that.
At eye watering costs, obviously... :ambivalence:

Your view would be highly appreciated, many TIA!

PS: out of curiosity, by "shaft seals" do you mean the horizontal prop shaft, or the vertical one inside the pod (which I suppose must also have some seals, since the thing has to rotate)?

 

[stelican]

If the water has come in via shaft seals would it not be possible to lift boat drain oil and flush replace shaft seals so that owner could complete holidays before major rebuild, Just a thought don't know if viable.

 

[rafiki_]

Paolo, as others have said, running the Pods in emulsified oil will have only one outcome. Serious cost, and a ruined holiday. Get is sorted immediately. It will only get more costly, and end in a total failure.

 

[petem]

I fear that running the things like this for a few weeks might end up with the owner having to B.O.A.T.T - Break Out Another Thirty Thousand .

I do like Stelican's suggestion though of replacing the seals and refilling with fresh oil, although the yard may not wish to risk it.

 

[Assassin]

It needs coming out, and the suggestion that all the seals are changed is perfectly valid and cheap insurance.

In reality it is difficult to tell how much damage is done until it is lifted and stripped for a full examination.

 

[MapisM]

If the water has come in via shaft seals would it not be possible to lift boat drain oil and flush replace shaft seals so that owner could complete holidays before major rebuild, Just a thought don't know if viable.

At the moment, that's what we are considering/hoping, because the full monty IPS removal would mean holidays completely lost, for the owner.

I would just love to have a confirmation from VP that when he said "point of water ingress which is usually the shaft seals" he did mean the seals on the prop shafts rather than the one inside the pod.
Which might be sort of obvious for him I guess, but not to my IPS-ignorant ears...

What I can easily guess is that the time required for the full IPS removal is bound to be a multiple vs. the replacement of just the prop shaft seals.
I also suppose that the prop shaft seals replacement, once done, doesn't need to be re-done whenever the whole pod will be pulled out for a more extensive maintenance, so it wouldn't be a throwaway job, so to speak.

But we are only speculating, at the moment.
The engineer from our local yard should come to inspect the boat in a few days, we'll see...

 

[Seastoke]

Is it not an insurance job , if he has had a rope on the prop.

 

[Portofino]

Would have thought “ shaft seals “ re water ingress is where the props stick out like an outdrive .Two remember as twin counter rotating .
The vertical gears shafts are sat on thrust bearings , not “ seals “ .The same oil lubricants them .
Of course in normally they will have play which needs to within manufacturers spec , that’s probably what the yard want to check by a full strip down which necessitates pod removal .

By way of background when I had an outdrive boat the legs where serviced by an appointed VP dealer with an engine shed .
Every two years at the belows service the legs came off and where completely stripped , a micrometer put on various parts , seals and shims and the odd bearing replaced as we went along .9 years ownership - uneventful trouble free .But mighty expensive.
The same yard regularly drop pods and take them into the engine shed for a strip .
Obviously there’s the gold standard and gold prices to pay for it with many AN Other service regimes .

Once saw a white van rock up and within 2 hrs the guy had wrestled new bellows on a drive without removal , after market parts then drove off .Owner arrived next day and ( we where next door ) and asked me how long it took as he could see the new bellows .I diplomatically said in pigeon Fr I did not see - was polishing t,other side etc .
My boat had two holes in the stern for 3 days as VP where doing my bellows service as well as a strip n seal job as std .

How ever the forum understandably is full of outdrive service tips / short cuts / DIY er ,s and WOEs
Back to pods / IPS , I have asked before and got rebuked concerning the rubber skirt on pods , it’s life , it’s service regime etc .
Yet I see my yard ( the VP agents ) dropping pods and replacing them .Don't know if it’s while they are in there or there’s a time .
So your mates pod drop is gonna pick up a helluva “ while we are at it “ or in my book deferred maintenance being a 2010 version .

Oil coolers for the gears and exhaust heat mitigation.

One for Volvo Paul - will the pods have them ,thinking dodgy seals in those too?

@ MapisM,
What’s your mate had done on them since he’s had the boat ?

 

[Portofino]

I also suppose that the prop shaft seals replacement, once done, doesn't need to be re-done whenever the whole pod will be pulled out for a more extensive maintenance, so it wouldn't be a throwaway job, so to speak.

But we are only speculating, at the moment.
The engineer from our local yard should come to inspect the boat in a few days, we'll see...

It’s generally good practice to fit new seals when you draw out a shaft .
That’s what we do in automotive land , cam seals , drive shaft seals gearbox output shaft seals etc etc .Remember the worst that can happen if you skimp and reuse is drip of oil on your garage floor .Yet we still renew seals every time if it’s been disturbed.

How ever drawing the two prop shafts to complete the strip down and NOT replacing the water seals ( how ever new. ) is highly potentially gonna put you mate back at sq 1 , madness in the marine world .

 

[MapisM]

Would have thought “ shaft seals “ re water ingress is where the props stick out like an outdrive .Two remember as twin counter rotating .
The vertical gears shafts are sat on thrust bearings , not “ seals “

Thanks PF, your interpretation is along the lines of mine, but I was unsure of the correct naming.
After all, also in straight shaft boats the shaft seals are called, erm..., seals.
And the equivalent (sort of) point where the shaft goes through the hull in an IPS system is the pod itself.

Anyway, semantic aside, it's interesting to hear of the maintenance schedule of your old outdrives boat.
Makes me happy to not have one anymore!
My boating mate also had his boat serviced by a VP official dealer, but I don't think they ever stripped the pods before.
Hence the suggestion to do it now (and replace/upgrade also the clutch), I suppose.
Which is another point on which volvopaul's view would be highly appreciated!

 

[BartW]

can't you suck out the oil via the dipstick opening, and put in new
do a sea trial and inspect the oil aftter every xx minutes of navigation,
this way he might save a bit of his holliday's,
is it Enzo's ?
he will never know, but he might have been running with the emulsified oil for quite a while

if necessary they can join us one day on BA I believe they liked that

 

[Portofino]

can't you suck out the oil via the dipstick opening, and put in new
do a sea trial and inspect the oil aftter every xx minutes of navigation,
this way he might save a bit of his holliday's,
is it Enzo's ?
he will never know, but he might have been running with the emulsified oil for quite a while

if necessary they can join us one day on BA I believe they liked that

Dip stick seems 20 cm or so L , so it ( unlike a engine ) does not seem to go to a sump , to the bottom .
Looks to me with a pod L of 80 cm or 1 M it’s just dipping the top of a sump with case full of gears .
So I doubt you can negotiate a cannula arrangement with a electric pump to very bottom of the pod .

You can in automotive land with cars agreed , the base of the sump via the DS hole .

Of cause happy to be corrected .

But remember this at the VP Xmas party when they are all pissed up , the after sales manager brags to everyone his revenues are greater than plain sales of new units .
So he’s not gonna loose top dog in bonus payments by designing a system or encouraging a system that you innocently suggest - that knackers his Christmas bonus is he ?

Idea is to trap customers into a never ending revenue stream , by making life difficult for quick fix DIY ers .

Wouldn’t you ? ?

Squeeze every last. £/€/$ out of folks who went IPS .

 

[Assassin]

But remember this at the VP Xmas party when they are all pissed up , the after sales manager brags to everyone his revenues are greater than plain sales of new units .
So he’s not gonna loose top dog in bonus payments by designing a system or encouraging a system that you innocently suggest - that knackers his Christmas bonus is he ?

Idea is to trap customers into a never ending revenue stream , by making life difficult for quick fix DIY ers .

Its the same idea every business has and the difference is that those of us in automotive land find viable solutions to problems and at worst we brake down at the side of the road, a boat is a very different scenario and being left bobbing around at sea isn't exactly the same as being stuck at the side of the road.