Outburst Of Pedantry

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Give that man a prize

I'm just off down the backer stairs to make breakfast, which I shall take through to the fronts of the house to eat.

 

[Seven Spades]

Re: Give that man a prize

Try listening to Radio 4, either the Today programme or In our Time presented by Melvyn Bragg in both these programmes new words are invented with alarming regularity.

Internationalise
Historicalise
Conseptulated

All of these and more from people whoought to know better. I think scientists and politicans are the main offenders.

 

[John_Lana]

Re: Give that man a prize

Quote "Yes. Hes' sertanely splitting hers. "

No - just trying to be accurate, if a little pedantic! After all, is that not what this thread is about?

As for Twister Ken..... what you are saying obviously sounds silly to you. Well, when I hear people talking about their "aft deck" or the "bow" of their boat, it sounds equally silly to me. Your house has only one front, I imagine, but your boat certainly has two bows....... Do your what you choose to call your "backer" stairs lead to an "up" floor, or do they indeed lead to an "upper" floor?

John

 

[snowleopard]

Re: Give that man a prize

An American saying: "Any noun can be verbed".

 

[Tisme]

Re: Give that man a prize

[ QUOTE ]
After all, is that not what this thread is about?

[/ QUOTE ]

No! It's not about accuracy, it's about precision! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I suspect that part of the problem is that, as we all know, our language is constantly evolving. As words change there is an inevitable "change over period" during which the old pronunciation fades away and the new one comes into general usage.

FWIW I rarely talk about either the "bow" or the "bows", I find that people understand "up front" much better.

 

[John_Lana]

Re: Give that man a prize

I agree that our language is evolving, but I still think we should strive for accuracy and precision in using nautical terms correctly. If I may, I will relate a true tale of a voyage a good friend made down the Red Sea...
This was back in the days before satnav, and if the weather was hazy, then sunsights were difficult. My friend was struggling to keep his dr up to date and accurate. They were closing the Sudan coast, where there are many offshore sandbanks and reefs. It was to his great relief he spotted a lighthouse, just about where it should be, as dusk fell.
He handed over the watch to a not-very experienced mate, with instructions to steer such and such a course, and to call him as the lighthouse came abeam. He got his head down for a well-deserved rest.
He woke later, in a bit of a panic, knowing he had been asleep longer than expected and dashed up on deck. Sure enough, in the distance, far astern he could just see the lighthouse flashing.
"Why did you not call me?" he asked the mate.
With a puzzled expression, the mate told him "The light never became a beam; you can see, it is still flashing now!"
We can laugh at this now, but such sloppy use of the nautical terms by the mate could have killed them all.......

John

 

[bilbobaggins]

Re: After all, we must remember they don\'t actually speak English.

Note SRW wearing the 'hijab'. Is there a French Connection? Is she an e-terrorist? We should be told....

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Give that man a prize

John,

You obviously enjoy fighting uphill battles.

The after cabin of a boat has been called, in common parlance, the aft cabin for as long as I've been sailing (some time). Maybe Claud Worth called it the after cabin?

As for the bow/bows I'm happy to admit that I use them interchangeably, without being aware that one is 'right' and the other 'wrong'. If, in your terms, we take something which is stuck dead centre between the bows, like the anchor roller, it is usually called the bow roller, not the bows roller. Ditto bow sprit. Similarly, if I go to the front of my modest vessel, I'm going to the pointy bit, not to left left or right of it. In you terms I would be at the bows, in mine at the bow, but each of us would understand perfectly what the other meant. On the other hand, I would ask someone to keep a sharp lookout on the port bow, not the port bows.

I remember once, in my early days, being asked by the skipper to check the genoa sheet. I had to ask what he meant and I don't think I've heard the expression since.

There comes a time, when the language changes, that you change with it, or become an anachronism.

Wishing you a happy forenoon.

 

[suse]

Re: After all, we must remember they don\'t actually speak English.

I think a hijab (pron. High-Jab) is what the knees are made for...

Be warned - be VERY warned! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

Raymond Baxter

He was a very good commentator, but strangely that Simon Taylor, whilst sounding similar is really difficult to listen to. Oh, he talks a load of bollocks as well.

 

[Stingo]

Re: Give that man a prize

[ QUOTE ]
... Similarly, if I go to the front of my modest vessel, I'm going to the pointy bit, not to left left or right of it. In your terms I would be at the bows, in mine at the bow...

[/ QUOTE ]unless you own a catamaran.

My pet hate is the misuse of "to" and "too". What gets me going even more, is that I can never work out the difference myself.

 

[reginaldon]

Re John Lana

All this talk of aft and after reminds me of the USN's pipe: something like 'Now come on all you liberty guys hurry on and glamourise and fall in abaft the after smoke stack!', ours was 'Libertymen fall in!'.

 

[Tisme]

Re: Give that man a prize

In many ways I agree with you, but it is all about how we communicate rather than being correct for the sake of it.

In the example you give the mate clearly miss-understood the instruction. Was that, as you say, his fault? Or was it the fault of your friend who as skipper (I assume) should have ensured that he was aware of the limitations of his crew? If he had given the order in a way the mate could have understood, rather than "correctly", maybe the problem would not have happened.

 

[Spyro]

Re: Give that man a prize

[ QUOTE ]
An American saying: "Any noun can be verbed".

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to know when Party became a verb, it certainly wasn't when I was at school and I hear it all the time now.

 

[bob_tyler]

Re: Give that man a prize

Stingo (less)
Quite simple really. Too means also. All the others are to, /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[landaftaf]

Re: Give that man a prize

stand too
broached too

to name but two /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Give that man a prize

"Quite simple really. Too means also. All the others are to"

Not that simple.

Too also means "in excess" except that's a little too strong, rather "more than enough", as in he protested too loudly or I have too many bollox or that's too kind.

 

[Benbow]

Re: Give that man a prize

[ QUOTE ]
Stingo (less)
Quite simple really. Too means also. All the others are to, /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Too right!

 

[drawp]

What about the great American verb "gotten" - a handy fall back for brain dead authors who cannot think of a more descriptive word.

 

[reginaldon]

A great English verb participle actually; we have 'got' slipshod and use the same word for the past tense and the past participle, you'll find it used in the 1611 Authorised Version of the Bible.