Outboard in a well problems

[Scotty_Tradewind]

In an International Folkboat that my son has just gone afloat in, he has found that the water in the well comes into the stern locker when sailing.

He wishes to keep the outboard fitted in the well rather than keep lifting it in or out (the well has a lid to fit when engine is out) and at the moment would prefer to not have to put it out on the transom like many folkboaters do.

Would a gater, like those sometimes fitted to a mast, be an idea to fit? If so would a canvas tube and large jubilee clips or similar be the right way to go?

Any other suggestions please?

S.

 

[davidpbo]

I have an outboard in well, with two strips of rubber forming a bit bit of a seal with the outboard leg, I think it is more an attempt to limit turbulence.

Is the water in danger of swamping the engine?

Is the water too high when the boat is not sailing?

Might it be a trim/ballast problem?

The gaiter would help with splashing but probably not be of much use against serious water ingress, IMHO.

 

[VicS]

In an International Folkboat that my son has just gone afloat in, he has found that the water in the well comes into the stern locker when sailing.


Any other suggestions please?

S.

Depending on the make/design of the outboard it may or may not be practical to fit a gaiter.

It would be difficult with something like this for example

Even with an engine where it is possible you will have to deal with water from the telltale and the exhaust back pressure relief ports.

 

[NickRobinson]

Depending on the make/design of the outboard it may or may not be practical to fit a gaiter.

It would be difficult with something like this for example

Even with an engine where it is possible you will have to deal with water from the telltale and the exhaust back pressure relief ports.

Are you referring to the Seagull in the lower LH corner? You could throw that down a well....

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Are you referring to the Seagull in the lower LH corner? You could throw that down a well....

It's but a lowly mercury 2str. long shaft 4hp

Not sure where the exhaust comes out ???

S.

 

[VicS]

Are you referring to the Seagull in the lower LH corner? You could throw that down a well....

The Seagull is F 306 DD4. So now 40 years and 6 months old. Still almost as good as new. Converted to 25:1 fuel mix Starts 2nd or 3rd pull as a rule. Did fit a new plug many years ago IIRC and a new throttle cable.

I reckon it will see me out easily.

 

[VicS]

It's but a lowly mercury 2str. long shaft 4hp

Not sure where the exhaust comes out ???

S.

The exhaust will come out under water behind the prop but it's the water that comes out of the telltale and/or the relief ports that will be nuisance if you seal it in with a gaiter. Depends on model but might even be a through hub exhaust

It might be possible to pipe the water from the telltale away though

 

[Tranona]

It's but a lowly mercury 2str. long shaft 4hp

Not sure where the exhaust comes out ???

S.

The exhaust will come out just above the prop (as you can see on Vic's photo), but there will also be a relief hole higher up the leg to relieve back pressure if the water level is too high - for example when motoring into waves.

The basic problem is that the offset well on that type of hull form is not very satisfactory as the freeboard is low and the heeled waterline is often above the mounting board in the well allowing water to slop in. Leaving the engine in place creates a lot of drag and it is best when sailing to remove the engine and fit a plug.

The gaiter you suggested will reduce the amount of water coming in as well as reduce some of the turbulence but is likely to cause running problems because exhaust fumes may get trapped in the well and upset the carburation. Having the locker lid open may help, but you will only find out by trying!

 

[VicS]

The exhaust will come out just above the prop (as you can see on Vic's photo),

Not where you think on that particular model. (Yachtwin) What you think is the exhaust outlet is blanked off and the actual outlet is the square holes several inches above.

 

[NickRobinson]

The Seagull is F 306 DD4. So now 40 years and 6 months old. Still almost as good as new. Converted to 25:1 fuel mix Starts 2nd or 3rd pull as a rule. Did fit a new plug many years ago IIRC and a new throttle cable.

I reckon it will see me out easily.

:encouragement:

 

[Daydream believer]

If the well sides were raised would the prop come out of the water flow or is the shaft fairly long.
Alternatively is the prop shaft too short & the prop turbulence is what is coming into the boat

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I believe the water was coming into the well when sailing .... motor not running but in position. It's only possible to lift the engine right out and put a lid on the well.

I'll know more when son returns 2moro.... but it's a must fix problem as he says he had a foot of water in the stern lazarette locker and the fuel tank was floating around in it.

S.

 

[matg]

I would be tempted to go for the transom hung option. I have this setup on my IF, and although looks wise it's not ideal, practically it's great. Once you're sailing it's easy to lean over the lazarette and lift the engine.
Otherwise you might find some solutions on the Swedish IF forum. They have an English forum too.
http://www.ifboat.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=4be498953189b0b2fcd287db1fc6c133
(hope that link works).

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I would be tempted to go for the transom hung option. I have this setup on my IF, and although looks wise it's not ideal, practically it's great. Once you're sailing it's easy to lean over the lazarette and lift the engine.
Otherwise you might find some solutions on the Swedish IF forum. They have an English forum too.
http://www.ifboat.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=4be498953189b0b2fcd287db1fc6c133
(hope that link works).

Hi matg
that's very helpful
many thanks
S.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I found on my leisure 17, it was very difficult to lift the mariner 4 long shaft out of the water when sailing. That was ten yrs ago and my arm strength was better then. Also re fueling at sea was a bit hit and miss so i would try and find out what owners of similar boats do. And persevere with the well. The problem can't be unique to your boat.

I would be tempted to go for the transom hung option. I have this setup on my IF, and although looks wise it's not ideal, practically it's great. Once you're sailing it's easy to lean over the lazarette and lift the engine.
Otherwise you might find some solutions on the Swedish IF forum. They have an English forum too.
http://www.ifboat.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=4be498953189b0b2fcd287db1fc6c133
(hope that link works).

 

[doug748]

I had one of these boats so am familiar with the difficulty.

At one point I used a scooter inner tube which, when lightly inflated, formed a useful seal. You can also supplement this with an old bath towel. This will keep most of the water out, but in lively conditions there will always be some. The blanking plate solves the problem entirely, but it is handy, when day sailing or mooching about, to leave the engine down. A small portable hand pump can also be useful but I don't suggest it would ever be worthwhile to permanently rig anything.
In slow conditions you can get exhaust gas in the locker depending on the model of engine, I had one motor that had the leg port extended below the cavitation plate but gas could still bubble up when moving slowly. You have to play that one by ear.
For getting the engine out it is possible to stand in the well (on anything in there if you have to) with at least one foot and employ a straight lift.

If stowage in the lazarette is restricted to items that will not spoil then the problem is solved. I used to put the fenders in there and an Avon. There was a set of pegs high on the inside of the transom, above the high water mark, for storing warps.

The IF boat is a very slippy thing and the outboard scrubs off a bit of the shine, for anything above a few miles I always used to remove the thing and lay in down horizontally across the locker. It nestled quite well on top of the dingy etc and that was a larger Mercury.

They are exceptionally pleasing sailing boats. Tord Sunden was once asked where was the best place to stow the outboard on an International Folkboat. He replied: “In the garden shed”

 

[Seajet]

I'm with doug748,

my boat has a well, and for any clear water trip of more than a few minutes I remove the engine and fit the plug; this reduces drag and turbulence massively, with the bonus that the prop isn't dangling to catch flotsam.

I don't find lifting the engine in & out a problem at all, it's a matter of learning a technique; I raise the engine ( Mariner 5 2-stroke ) and stand it on the cockpit sole for 20 seconds to drain, then slide into the cockpit locker - a rubber car mat to protect the locker floor and a small fender to keep the engine head up have proved worthwhile.

I use a standard shaft engine and it never breaks surface in normal conditions - a long shaft might be difficult to stow depending on cockpit lockers.

A chum tried a well plug with an aperture semi-closed by bristles around the outboard leg, but he suspected it was causing the engine to overheat; as he's a red-hot mechanic it's a fair bet he was right.

I have to ask, why on earth is the lazarette flooding, is the well in the middle of it, not separated then ?

I think some small structure to prevent the lazarette flooding would be the answer.

As for going around with the engine in all the time, that's like flying a Spitfire with the wheels down !

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

All being taken 'onboard'... thanks to all for ideas and recommends.

S.

 

[davidpbo]

My outboard (post#2) has a copper breather tube attached to it, it allows some of the fumes to exit through the transom.

The locker is also open at the side level with the engine.

Fume build up is only a problem moored on a still day.

 

[davidpbo]

My outboard (post#2) has a copper breather tube attached to it, it allows some of the fumes to exit through the transom.

The locker is also open at the side level with the engine.

Fume build up is only a problem moored on a still day.