Out of my depth anchoring in the south west

[Whomper]

I had a boat with a manual (555) windlass, 250’ of all chain rode and a 45lb plow. That was western Canada and I slept very well with that set up for years.

Now we’re about to splash a bilge keel Sabre 27 in Falmouth. No windlass, no rode because the ~20m of chain had rotted in a chain locker with a plugged drain (!), a 25lb cqr knockoff and a large danforth knock off so well secured in a cockpit locker that I assume it was reserved for the storm that never came… and that’s it.

What is realistic ground tackle for down here? I’d like to creek crawl and stay in a few seaside coves along the coast. I don’t want to install a windlass right now and I don’t want to break my back lifting a massive hook and chain.

Any experienced advice from the double-keel crowd?

 

[boomerangben]

Rope and chain. Aluminium anchor

 

[johnalison]

Almost anything will do for creek crawling. Rope and chain is a good solution for a small boat. Any half-decent anchor will work, even if some are better than others.

 

[fredrussell]

There’s a Fortress FX11 on eBay at the moment for £100. Seems a fair price to me.

 

[oldbloke]

Almost anything will do for creek crawling. Rope and chain is a good solution for a small boat. Any half-decent anchor will work, even if some are better than others.

Totally agree with this, no need to overcomplicate or overspecify for the sort of thing you are planning. The only thing I would add is that with the tides we get and the complicated winds we get in the estuaries you will be circling round a lot so with a rope rode it is worth using a weight to hold the rope down away from keel(s) and rudder

 

[Whomper]

So… stick with the plow, get 10m of 8mm chain, 50m of 3 strand (or octoplait) nylon and use the big lead weight I just realized is a kellet? Then save the storm anchor for when I’m sitting in a cove on the coast and want to be able to sleep?

I like this plan. Though I have always wanted a fortress…

Thanks!

 

[Tranona]

You do not need 8mm chain. 50m of 6mm is fine with no rope except the facility to shackle on a length of 12mm 3 strand (NOT nylon) if you need it. Keep the plough or splash out on a new 10kg Delta. You may want a shorter length of 10mm nylon to use as a snubber if you plan anchoring in higher wind strengths

 

[johnalison]

Totally agree with this, no need to overcomplicate or overspecify for the sort of thing you are planning. The only thing I would add is that with the tides we get and the complicated winds we get in the estuaries you will be circling round a lot so with a rope rode it is worth using a weight to hold the rope down away from keel(s) and rudder

So you’ve had rope round the keel after a change of tide too have you?

 

[dtynan]

I'd second the comment from @Tranona on 6mm chain. I used 6mm on my old Achilles 24, and given the hull shape of sailboats, you don't want that weight on the bow.

Seeing as we have in-mast furling and those that have it seem to like it, how long until the anchor locker moves to the keel, and a hawse pipe (or whatever its called) to bring it to the bow? Extra weight down low when you're sailing, and all the chain you want, when you're on the hook.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

You need 50m i those waters what with the sudden shelving plus the moderately high tides. We have 50m of 8mm on our 27 footer but only because it would be too expensive tto change the capstan gypsy wheel to acommodate 7mm or 6mm. The only issue with 6mm is not strength but corrosion resistance - but thats only a real issue for liveaboards.

CQRs plough the ground and useless in mud or fine sand in any exposed spot. Bruces much better in mud or fine sand but wont set amongst the boulders (bits of Scilly and Plymouth Sound). I would suggest a Delta as minimum if you cant afford a new generation. Having boat disappear as one comes back from pub, or drags dangerously while one sleeps, will not enhance the boating life.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

So you’ve had rope round the keel after a change of tide too have you?

I have when young broke and foolish. Never again will I regularly have rope rode in tidal waters where currents swirl. Lost a perfectly good anchor that way in the Bristol Channel, and plenty of risk of a repeat with rapidly changing tides off Cornwall.

I have a 100m rope rode on my emergency anchor attached to 20m of 10mm - but thats for emergency when the alternative might be being smashed to bits on the Manacles

 

[oldbloke]

So you’ve had rope round the keel after a change of tide too have you?

Oh yes, and in the Spring 25 with a wing keel and at Dittisham with a spring tide, great fun!!. Not quite so enjoyable at the time at 4am

 

[johnalison]

I have when young broke and foolish. Never again will I regularly have rope rode in tidal waters where currents swirl. Lost a perfectly good anchor that way in the Bristol Channel, and plenty of risk of a repeat with rapidly changing tides off Cornwall.

I have a 100m rope rode on my emergency anchor attached to 20m of 10mm - but thats for emergency when the alternative might be being smashed to bits on the Manacles

The only boat I used rope on routinely was our fin-keeled Sadler 29. We got well and truly caught once and ended up lying skewed to the tide that was running quite strongly. I hummed and haa-ed about whether to use the engine to extricate ourselves since muscle power wasn't working and we couldn't easily wait for the tide to slacken. In the event I did use the engine and no harm was done, but thereafter we always lowered a heavy shackle a couple of metres down the line when we anchored.

 

[NPMR]

On our Sabre 27 sailed out of Falmouth, to France, Scillies and all the surrounding areas, we had a lot of chain, hardly any rope and an old CQR.

We only ever dragged in the Scillies in St Marys (in a big wind), with 2 anchors out. For the rest of our lengthy ownership, suffered no mishaps but occasional time consuming and tedious re-sets.

The weight of chain was not really noticeable and we often outsailed other 'Sabres' primarily due to our excellently cut Mainsail and Genoa.

My theory, setting up the boat to sail well will make a small excess weight from chain matter less and the reassurance that chain gives is worth the sacrifice. On our current boat we have enough chain (lots) for most depths we're likely to want to anchor in (using 4-5 times depth) and a Delta anchor that really seems to hold.

Another personal opinion: tidal currents around Cornwall are not always very strong. Some rivers, of course, like R Yealm do run fast but no anchoring allowed so ..... or Salcombe where anchoring is very limited, again, in my opinion.

 

[Kwik Decision]

So… stick with the plow, get 10m of 8mm chain, 50m of 3 strand (or octoplait) nylon and use the big lead weight I just realized is a kellet? Then save the storm anchor for when I’m sitting in a cove on the coast and want to be able to sleep?

I like this plan. Though I have always wanted a fortress…

Thanks!

8 mm chain is overkill for a 27' boat. If it were me I'd get 7 mm, but others may suggest 6 mm.

I'd also be getting a 10 kg new gen anchor, as I know how much easier they are to set than an old plough...

 

[Whomper]

On our Sabre 27 sailed out of Falmouth, to France, Scillies and all the surrounding areas, we had a lot of chain, hardly any rope and an old CQR.

We only ever dragged in the Scillies in St Marys (in a big wind), with 2 anchors out. For the rest of our lengthy ownership, suffered no mishaps but occasional time consuming and tedious re-sets.

The weight of chain was not really noticeable and we often outsailed other 'Sabres' primarily due to our excellently cut Mainsail and Genoa.

My theory, setting up the boat to sail well will make a small excess weight from chain matter less and the reassurance that chain gives is worth the sacrifice. On our current boat we have enough chain (lots) for most depths we're likely to want to anchor in (using 4-5 times depth) and a Delta anchor that really seems to hold.

Another personal opinion: tidal currents around Cornwall are not always very strong. Some rivers, of course, like R Yealm do run fast but no anchoring allowed so ..... or Salcombe where anchoring is very limited, again, in my opinion.

Ah, excellent! Do you recall how much chain you carried, and did you have a windlass?

FWIW: I’ve literally dropped, set, slept on and recovered a plow well over 100 times in mud, sand, gravel and rock and, ONCE PROPERLY SET, I’ve only dragged once - after a yahoo pulled my tackle up with his own anchor and then just dropped it and left. I tried the delta and hated it. Even at 10 lbs heavier it was not nearly as trustworthy in shifting currents. My experience, of course, but I have been piloting boats for 45 years now, and I’m amazed how quickly designs fall out of favor as soon as the marketing stops…

 

[doug748]

I had a boat with a manual (555) windlass, 250’ of all chain rode and a 45lb plow. That was western Canada and I slept very well with that set up for years.

Now we’re about to splash a bilge keel Sabre 27 in Falmouth. No windlass, no rode because the ~20m of chain had rotted in a chain locker with a plugged drain (!), a 25lb cqr knockoff and a large danforth knock off so well secured in a cockpit locker that I assume it was reserved for the storm that never came… and that’s it.

What is realistic ground tackle for down here? I’d like to creek crawl and stay in a few seaside coves along the coast. I don’t want to install a windlass right now and I don’t want to break my back lifting a massive hook and chain.

Any experienced advice from the double-keel crowd?

In my view you don't want 8mm chain or to regularly use attached rope as part of your set up. 6mm chain, of a good length, and a 10kg anchor will be easy to pull up by hand and will meet all your needs on that boat. Post 7 nails it.

.

 

[Farmer Piles]

I'm with Doug, keep it simple and go for a good length of 6mm chain and a good anchor. I chopped out my Bruce copy anchor that came with my boat and spent cash on a Rocna Vulcan as it is new generation, super high holding power, it sets quickly and resets quickly.
Being a farmer I am a simple creature and for the sake of a few extra quid you get the quality. For me I sleep so much better knowing that I am well fastened to the seabed. To me having a cheap anchor is like having a Poundland lifejacket. When you look at what you spend on a boat in a year why would you not have a top end anchor.

To my mind.

 

[sfellows]

Totally agree with this, no need to overcomplicate or overspecify for the sort of thing you are planning. The only thing I would add is that with the tides we get and the complicated winds we get in the estuaries you will be circling round a lot so with a rope rode it is worth using a weight to hold the rope down away from keel(s) and rudder

I can remember an interesting night in the lower reaches of the Beaulieu River. Waking to a strange noise it soon became apparent that when the tide turned the anchor rope had wrapped around the keel and we were broadside on to the very strong ebb and dragging the anchor. The only way to extricate ourselves was to tie a fender to the anchor rope, release it, motor around and pick up the fender again. Which would have worked had the fender not got trapped by the rudder. We were now anchored (backwards) by the rudder. At least the boat wasn’t broadside on and the anchor was holding. I did the first anchor watch. After around an hour I heard a loud “plop” as the fender surfaced astern. I started the engine motored around to the fender, picked it up and re-anchored the correct way round. We bought 60m chain the following week.

 

[wonkywinch]

We anchor a lot around the south coast of the UK. Allowing for tidal ranges of up to 5m (rounded) and min depth of 3m, a scope of 5x if it's going to be windy means 40m chain needed. We have 50m but rarely go beyond 30/35m as the Rocna always sets first time and (tempting fate) never dragged once set and tested.

Always sleep with an anchor alarm. I use Anchor Pro as you can set the bearing/distance to the anchor after the event and build differing arcs or tolerance for the alarm (ie shorter distance towards the shoreline).

Also leave the track running on the boating app so I can check where we've been to in the night.



Same spot viewed from above, that's us just left of centre.