out of date flares in france

[Bosun Higgs]

planning on going next week and havent got any up to date flares - nor do I intend to buy any. so the question is - how real is the old flares problem in france?

how likely is the boat to get searched? am I likely to be asked? all assuming of course that I have the correct docs which I will have. and the raft is in date etc.

is it a bit like vat documents - theoretically a problem but not in reality? or are they being French and difficult?

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

As far as understand it the official line is that only charter /commercial boats which are registered in France have to comply BUT it may be that your boat is deemed unsafe and you may be ordered to port until the deficiencies are remedied.There is a lot of discretion.
From personal experience, I have been boarded several times and only been asked for ship's papers and passports.

 

[l'escargot]

planning on going next week and havent got any up to date flares - nor do I intend to buy any. so the question is - how real is the old flares problem in france?

how likely is the boat to get searched? am I likely to be asked? all assuming of course that I have the correct docs which I will have. and the raft is in date etc.

is it a bit like vat documents - theoretically a problem but not in reality? or are they being French and difficult?

Why not redate them? Black felt tip over the old date and a date stamp from the local stationery shop set a few years hence to restamp in a prominent place.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Why not redate them? Black felt tip over the old date and a date stamp from the local stationery shop set a few years hence to restamp in a prominent place.

That's an attractive approach if it works. On the other hand, I wouldnt like to be on the wrong side of French police who took the view that I was taking the p*ss.

 

[tcm]

There's oodles of gendarmes in France often with not a whole lot to do. They do have power to levy on-the-spot fines. I've been fined for not having original registration doc on board - it was 3mils away at the marina office, but no excuse.

I think the redating idea is excellent!

 

[25931]

Why not redate them? Black felt tip over the old date and a date stamp from the local stationery shop set a few years hence to restamp in a prominent place.

Obliterating is a bit obvious - much better to wipe off with alcohol, (meths because you don't want to waste good booze).

 

[Mark-1]

how real is the old flares problem in france?

Apparently this comes from the RYA magazine:

 

[25931]

Apparently this comes from the RYA magazine:

It is possible that one could be fined for not complying with the regulations (not only outdated flares) of another country according to a reply I received recently from MCA.

 

[tcm]

yes - TECHNICALLY they shouldn't start inspecting the boat equipment since you aren't french flagged and hence not bound by french laws. But french boats have a list of gear that all must carry and any cops on the street can and do check it out and can impose the fine right there and then. You then have a choice of ruining the holiday or paying the ridiculous fine. The time that they'll likely arrive is approx 8:15am local time up until about 11:30 am so not a bad idea to be off the boat or out of the marina early...

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

There's oodles of gendarmes in France often with not a whole lot to do. They do have power to levy on-the-spot fines. I've been fined for not having original registration doc on board - it was 3mils away at the marina office, but no excuse.

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here: You didn't keep the reciept, you don't remember the offence code, you won't be able to provide any information to identify the legislation you took the fixed penalty for. In fact you won't be able to provide any useful detail whatsoever.

Right?

yes - TECHNICALLY they shouldn't start inspecting the boat equipment since you aren't french flagged and hence not bound by french laws. But french boats have a list of gear that all must carry and any cops on the street can and do check it out and can impose the fine right there and then. You then have a choice of ruining the holiday or paying the ridiculous fine.

Any verifiable evidence to support this assertion?


I'm going to take another wild stab in the dark now. You won't offer any evidence of any kind. You won't link to a source for anything you've said. You *will* however, try to move the topic of discussion away from the specifics of justifying what you have said. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I won't be.

 

[westernman]

Not having a registration document:-

"Defaut de tire de navigation Dt 60-799 du 2.8.1960 - Art 2"
Contravention de 5e classe
up to 1500 euros fine

I think not having the registration document is about the only thing they can do a non French boat for.

 

[Mudplugger]

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here: You didn't keep the reciept, you don't remember the offence code, you won't be able to provide any information to identify the legislation you took the fixed penalty for. In fact you won't be able to provide any useful detail whatsoever.

Right?



Any verifiable evidence to support this assertion?


I'm going to take another wild stab in the dark now. You won't offer any evidence of any kind. You won't link to a source for anything you've said. You *will* however, try to move the topic of discussion away from the specifics of justifying what you have said. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear I won't be.

May I suggest that rather than implying all posters who do not conform to your point of view, are prevaricating. Get in your boatie and go ...without the relevant documentataion & with out of date flares and suffer the consequences.
Suggest Dunkirk, Calais, Boulogne would be good starting places. but be prepared to put your hand in your pocket!

 

[tcm]

Um, blimey. Nope all true - i dunno if there's an "offence code" - they just announce there and then that there's a fine.

I spent a lot of time based in France, ten years with three different boats, all based there. I was boarded several times ... thinking about it twice in Marseilles (where i was fined once) and again in deauville, and again in Cannes and i expect a few other times as well. Okay, about three times whilst anchored aroun d south coast of france, but never more than once per season.

Being boarded by officials in france is just heyho normal is what they say - they know we brits say jeez what have I done? - likewise being stopped by Douanes which also happened near la rochelle where they pulled apart the entire contents of the car at 2am in the morning (no receipt, six of them, no fine either...)

Why your incredulous disbelief? They have lots more govt employees and if you turn up with a different boat, well, it's something to have a nice long look at and even a little tour around.

 

[Doghousekeeper]

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here: You didn't keep the reciept, you don't remember the offence code, you won't be able to provide any information to identify the legislation you took the fixed penalty for. In fact you won't be able to provide any useful detail whatsoever.

Good God. You'd have to be a very sad sort of person to keep all that stuff on file, wouldn't you?

I've picked up a few on-the-spots for trivial things around the world (not all boaty things, by any means) and the paperwork has just gone straight into that little round filing cabinet in the corner.

Why on earth would you want to keep it?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I'm going to take another wild stab in the dark now. You won't offer any evidence of any kind. You won't link to a source for anything you've said. You *will* however, try to move the topic of discussion away from the specifics of justifying what you have said.

Possibly a little rude, but ultimately correct. My post produced lots of hot air but, as anticipated, no evidence.

Without any detail at all it's impossible to assess the veracity of TCM's first assertion.

I think it's fair to say that if the second assertion was based on anything meaningful then TCM would have gone to the RYA/Yachting mags and it would have been widely published. Indeed the RYA seem to have adopted the opposite view.

 

[oldfatgit]

Possibly a little rude, but ultimately correct. My post produced lots of hot air but, as anticipated, no evidence.

Without any detail at all it's impossible to assess the veracity of TCM's first assertion.

I think it's fair to say that if the second assertion was based on anything meaningful then TCM would have gone to the RYA/Yachting mags and it would have been widely published. Indeed the RYA seem to have adopted the opposite view.

Skepticism is healthy, cynicism is not. Oh, by the way, that is just my opinion not a hypothesis substantiated by evidence drawn from a scientific study. I'm a member of the RYA but some times wonder why, if I received an unjustified fine I am not sure that I would report it to them, particularly if it happened at the beginning of a long trip. Given that reality is what we perceive it to be sometimes it is worth taking other peoples' view at face value. We are not all egotistical story tellers who want to inflate our position by making assertions which are un-true. If you require evidence for everything then this forum is probably not the place for you.

 

[tcm]

gawsh, toad, i haven't reported loads of stuff to the rya! In fact, i dunno how i would do that or why bother. Lots of people know me personally here and i speak to them. Wife was there too, and they can chat with her. It's not a huge deal. I get fined on the autoroute and didn't report that either. But it is actually true. No, i haven't got the receipts! And i definitely wouldn't report it if it was gonna get me in the papers, thanks!

RYA have adopted the "opposite view" of what?

A french registerted boat is utterly different from the regime in the UK. I had one for a while and changed it as soon as i could! A french-flaggd vessel has to pay sailing tax for a start, and there is a proscribd list of equipment tat each vessel MUST carry. So all french flagged vessels over a certain size (look it up in Livre de bord) have GOT to have certainin number of fire extinguishers, bolts cutters and so on.

These rules are enshrined in law (as far as i can tell) in just the very same way as the road traffic laws. A gendarme presented himself on board one morning, and heyho we're gonna go through the boat - and they did. They sorta let me off with a warning the first time.

But dounaiers and all the rest remain perfectly within their rights to board french vessels. I supose quite reasonably they feel they can do the same to any boat that arives. I mean, we'd expect a foreign car to comply with our traffic rules, and the cops to inspect? Same thing as far as they're concerned.

Now, i readily agree that there might well be a softer regime for visiting boats in cherbourg etc, don't want to scare away a load of tourists.

But once a uk-flagged boat is parked up infrench waters then, heh, i supose it's fair enough that we comply. True at the time i though it petty and outrageous, so did the french maina office who had the docs and faxd them thru, but to no avail.

maks no difference to me, believe whatever you like, or not. It can't be to common i supose. You can rest assured i went suitably bonkers with them, so they probably won't have been to comfortable about doing it every day, but i dunno.

 

[doctormilner]

old flares in france

I have been to France about 6 times this year and I do not carry out of date flares.

Places like Granville like to stop you .

I was involved in firing off about 60 out of date flares a few weeks ago: rockets , hh, smokes.oldest dated 12/09

of 15 rockets 2 failed!!

I think of 20 hh 2 failed(the more expensive type)

I know this is unusual but I thought I would mention it to point it out the failure rate in exp flares, but acknowledge that we didn,t let off 60 in date to compare!!


jack sparrow

BLACK PEARL

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Skepticism is healthy, cynicism is not. Oh, by the way, that is just my opinion not a hypothesis substantiated by evidence drawn from a scientific study. I'm a member of the RYA but some times wonder why, if I received an unjustified fine I am not sure that I would report it to them, particularly if it happened at the beginning of a long trip. Given that reality is what we perceive it to be sometimes it is worth taking other peoples' view at face value. We are not all egotistical story tellers who want to inflate our position by making assertions which are un-true. If you require evidence for everything then this forum is probably not the place for you.

Firstly, love the username! Made me smile so thanks.

I agree with the broad tone of your post.

Just out of interest, which information should I take at face value? TCM's statement that the French will fine people for not complying with French safety gear requirements or the RYA's assertion that they have "been assured by reliable sources" that it shouldn't be a problem?

Someone else could use your own argument and say the RYA should be taken at face value instead of TCM.

I'm with Ronnie Regan, "Trust, but verify."

One more thought - you're an RYA member. If you think TCMs assertions are useful in themselves without further investigation, what is stopping you telling them? You'd be saving a load of fellow members from "a ruined holiday". I personally think the RYA would rightly want more info, what do you think? Would they be wrong not to take your info at face value?

 

[tcm]

As a member (and very doubting person) i suppose you could call the RYA and ask for a fluent french speaker to discuss the issue. If they haven't got one then i supsoe that would devalue the assertions of their reliable source?

I would also say that there's not much of the "headmistress" gene amongst French officials - there's a lot less uniformity, escalation isn't common,there none of that police video stuff as far as i know. Some (most actually) officials one meets will be nice as pie, we've gotta look at a few boats/cars you know... and (just a few) others are just gonna nick you, they've gotta show something now and again or whatever.

An example of this is that if (say) you manage to get away from a french road traffc speed cop (i've done this twice, once by slighty ignoring their wave to the side of the road after peage and er waving back, another time by nipping on to the A5 at the very last second when beinf escorted off the A6 northbound) wel then, that seems to be that. In uk i have little doubt that helicopters, all parties broadcast or whatever and gawd knows what is deployed, but in france, heyho, one of them sent our number plate to the shuttle port and we shrugged, they shrugged, and off we went. IN other words it seems that the decision to impose the on-the spot fine is extremely local - down to the official in question. Most want an easy life, and one hothead losing a "nick" isn't a trigger for all the others to go berserk.

And hence I can't see how the "reliable source" can give a categorical answer as the RYA claim that local rules will/won't be enforced. OK, a load of visitors come over to cherbourg is one thing - I'm sure that the local lot will have had it explained that they can't go through the RORC fleet and nickem all. But what about when you're the *only* boat in the marina that for some bonkers (ish) reason gets clean away with breaking the rules that apply in their country to all the other boats? I think if roles reversed, yeah, touristy areas solent would be cool about foreign boats doing whatever in the season and would be easy on the letter of the law - but less so in more out of the way places.