Ostende and diesel

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cookjwm

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Just to say we have recently spent 3 days in Ostende along with up to twenty other uk boats including the race fleet we were with and did not see a sign of customs and certainly no red diesel issues.
And Ostende is still a great destination, sadly a few restaurants on the front seem to be closed and they have demolished the old fish market near RNSC marina and there's building work going on so a bit of noise, but nothing to worry about.
 
After the exodus of the majority of the uk boats on Saturday morning we were visited by the Duane. He wanted to see passports, registration (ssr), ship vhf licence, operators licence and boat insurance. He also asked a few minor questions and then went on at length explaining that the Duane officers had been instructed to not check for red diesel on uk boats, at least until the 'governments' had come to an agreement.

Only relaying my own recent experience, but maybe it'll help others decide whether to visit Belgium, or not?

By the way.. great night in the cosy corner with some of the EAORA fleet!!
 
We were there Friday and caught up with a few friends from Burnham.

On the way up from Breskens to Stellendam on Sunday we were boarded by the Dutch Police.

Very polite and inspected all ships papers, plus checked we had up to date charts ( which we have ) and the water almanacs (we have both ). Took details of our passports and checked we were on the right radio channel. We had our motor sail cone up thank goodness. No problem with diesel. First time ever visiting the Netherlands for years that we have been checked. Don't know what would have been the consequences if we had failed on any of the above. Should of asked him but happy to see the back of him and get on with our passage.
 
tidclacy said:
We were there Friday and caught up with a few friends from Burnham.

On the way up from Breskens to Stellendam on Sunday we were boarded by the Dutch Police.

Very polite and inspected all ships papers, plus checked we had up to date charts ( which we have ) and the water almanacs (we have both ). Took details of our passports and checked we were on the right radio channel. We had our motor sail cone up thank goodness. No problem with diesel. First time ever visiting the Netherlands for years that we have been checked. Don't know what would have been the consequences if we had failed on any of the above. Should of asked him but happy to see the back of him and get on with our passage.
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Happened to us last year. Arrived 8am at Ijmuiden with a very seasick wife. went below to get the bucket and before I'd finished emptying it there was plod in his size 12s. Papers please. Can I have 5 minutes to tidy up my wife? NO, papers please. They were polite but rather harsh IMHO. TBH I prefer Belgium were we've always had a good reception . I love Antwerp, much calmer than Amsterdam although Middleberg and Zeirikzee are lovely.
 
tidclacy said:
We were there Friday and caught up with a few friends from Burnham.

On the way up from Breskens to Stellendam on Sunday we were boarded by the Dutch Police.

Very polite and inspected all ships papers, plus checked we had up to date charts ( which we have ) and the water almanacs (we have both ). Took details of our passports and checked we were on the right radio channel. We had our motor sail cone up thank goodness. No problem with diesel. First time ever visiting the Netherlands for years that we have been checked. Don't know what would have been the consequences if we had failed on any of the above. Should of asked him but happy to see the back of him and get on with our passage.
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Just out of interest, I know it seems obvious, but which charts were they looking for ?
 
I have the N V Charts which are kept up to date through e-mails. The 1800 series are not renewed now on a yearly basis as they used to be. I think for instance 1801 is 2013 version and to get it up to date you would need to spend quite a bit of time on corrections. The NV charts also come with a cd which you can load onto your laptop although I only use that for rough passage planning.

Here is a link if you want to investigate

http://eu.nvcharts.com/
 
Yesterday, a forumite who is Orwell-based was berthed next to us in Dunkirk. He came directly from Nieuwpoort. The police, who often patrol there for speeding craft, had stopped him there to check his paperwork. As he sails a small pre-WWII classic yacht, his original paperwork was at home, but he had scans to show. This didn't go well - I have heard similar stories in NL and FR- and they went round the boat and found other 'minor' defects. So the douane was called as well, who checked for red diesel (visually) and fined him 500 Euros.
 
thalassa said:
Yesterday, a forumite who is Orwell-based was berthed next to us in Dunkirk. He came directly from Nieuwpoort. The police, who often patrol there for speeding craft, had stopped him there to check his paperwork. As he sails a small pre-WWII classic yacht, his original paperwork was at home, but he had scans to show. This didn't go well - I have heard similar stories in NL and FR- and they went round the boat and found other 'minor' defects. So the douane was called as well, who checked for red diesel (visually) and fined him 500 Euros.
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Thanks for the Chart information - the Dutch ENC charts for inland waterways are of course infinite value.

Regarding the Red Diesel issue, the experiences outlined in this thread would indicate that a large element of luck combined with what mood the official is in.... it's about time this matter was cleared up once and for all. It would appear that the safe option is to pay duty on the fuel no matter what colour at source.

500 Euros is a real smack in the wallet
 
thalassa said:
Yesterday, a forumite who is Orwell-based was berthed next to us in Dunkirk. He came directly from Nieuwpoort. The police, who often patrol there for speeding craft, had stopped him there to check his paperwork. As he sails a small pre-WWII classic yacht, his original paperwork was at home, but he had scans to show. This didn't go well - I have heard similar stories in NL and FR- and they went round the boat and found other 'minor' defects. So the douane was called as well, who checked for red diesel (visually) and fined him 500 Euros.
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Hi Willie who pulled him Belgians or French
 
thalassa said:
Yesterday, a forumite who is Orwell-based was berthed next to us in Dunkirk. He came directly from Nieuwpoort. The police, who often patrol there for speeding craft, had stopped him there to check his paperwork. As he sails a small pre-WWII classic yacht, his original paperwork was at home, but he had scans to show. This didn't go well - I have heard similar stories in NL and FR- and they went round the boat and found other 'minor' defects. So the douane was called as well, who checked for red diesel (visually) and fined him 500 Euros.
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Who be nice to hear further details from the forumite in question himself.
 
sailorman said:
Hi Willie who pulled him Belgians or French
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Hi Roger!
Belgian police, in Nieuwpoort. All very polite, apparently. I saw the form (in Dutch) briefly. Having seen the boat, I understand fully his reluctance to keep historic paperwork on board. The lack of a visible boat name didn't help as well.
The owner was a charming man in true ECF spirit...

As an aside, my only police or customs visits on board over a period of 27 years was by Dutch (5 x) and French (2x) officials. I had my original ships' papers in a watertight foil, and a scanned an printed copy in a sort of ledger. They refused those, luckily I had the original. We keep our fine vessel in The Netherlands, in a comparatively remote area. One winter, I kept the boat in the club shed on dry land to do some job. It was near freezing and I was in the bilge when two Dutch customs officers knocked on the hull. They were after my VAT stuff.
Full thread drift:
Last year, I had a visit from the UKBA in Shotley. Polite, but very thorough (asking the same questions to me and my wife separately, posing the same ones over and over again). A day later, I read online that an unknown Dutch yacht had set two personsoff with a dinghy, in a little bay near the Goodwins.
 
I'm curious. I have scanned and printed copies of all the paperwork for Erbas and I'm damned if I can tell them apart from the originals! (Apart from the VAT deemed paid certificate which is rather flimsy paper but I could easily source a match)

And in recent times everybody and their broker will have been printing Bills of Sale off on the office printer

So how do they tell?
 
Erbas said:
I'm curious. I have scanned and printed copies of all the paperwork for Erbas and I'm damned if I can tell them apart from the originals! (Apart from the VAT deemed paid certificate which is rather flimsy paper but I could easily source a match)

And in recent times everybody and their broker will have been printing Bills of Sale off on the office printer

So how do they tell?
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I'm not sure, but I seem to remember he 'showed them on the computer'.
 
Boz said:
Sounds as though they were scanned as electronic copies and not scanned and printed, perhaps that is understandable then?
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Whilst I do feel for the owner of the boat in question, he was IMHO taking unnecessary risks in not taking originals of the boat paperwork with him (for whatever reason).
Even the RYA advises to take original paperwork: http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/boatingabroadpaperwork.aspx

This changes the perspective somewhat: Douane did not go after him looking for red diesel, but having 'got' him for other matters, they threw red diesel in there for good measure.
 
All of which means anyone going to Belgium at present risks a similar issue even if they have the right forms. It is common to get things like insurance as a pdf attached to an email these days. There is no original paper form as such. The continued uncertainty is why we will not be visiting Belgium until the position is sorted out properly. A real shame as we miss Belgium. Maybe the traders on the coast and marinas will exert pressure on the powers that be to do so.
 
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