Osmosis-to buy or not to buy...

[Cashbuyer]

Should I be concerned that the 1986 Princess 30DS that I am thinking of buying is showing signs of osmosis? The broker has told me it is not a big issue - he has a Seamaster that has had this problem for 15 years. Of course he has the sellers interest at heart (and his commission). We will use the boat only on the river and as he suggested that the repair could cost £10,000, I am reluctant to go ahead with this course of action. Of course, the boat has all we need and has been well kept and serviced. Any thoughts?

 

[Aardee]

Have you had the boat professionally surveyed? - If not, I'd suggest it's money well spent as the surveyor will be able to advise you on the extent and severity of the osmosis, as well as advising on any remediation work needed.

While you're right to be nervous of a boat with osmosis, it shouldn't necessarily be a show-stopper.

 

[CX54WEK]

I think there are a lot of doom and gloom, scare mongering stories around osmosis.

There must be thousands of boats afloat that have a case of osmosis, ranging from a few early signs to peppered in blisters.

It neednt be a deal breaker, but as suggested above, get a proffesional surveyor to have a look at the extent of the problem and advise on the appropriae course of action, if any need be taken.

 

[jhr]

No boat has ever (yet) been sunk by osmosis.

However, you have lit on the principal problem by making this post - what will a prospective purchaser think when you come to sell? If you've had it (expensively) fixed, you may be OK. Alternatively, if you don't fix it, when the time comes you may have the good fortune to sell to someone who has the common sense to realise that Osmosis is common on older boats and can be lived with, but I fear it will be a deal breaker in a lot of cases.

So, imho, either buy the boat knowing that it may be hard to sell, or get a quote for it to be fixed professionally, and deduct that from your offer.

 

[Adrianwool]

As others have said you do need this boat to be professionally surveyed to determine the extent of the problem. 15 years ago any Osmosis was the 'kiss of death' to a sale. Now I think people have a more enlightened view. At one time people would have the hull peeled and epoxyed at vast expense. Now it is a question of ascertaining the problem and deciding how to proceed, if the hull is delaminating (I have never heard of a case of this) then you walk away. If localised to small areas of the hull then these areas alone can be treated by removing the boat from the water, letting her thoroughly dry out, address any blisters by cutting, washing and re-epoxying/re gelling. I had this advice from a grp man who had worked for several large and reputable builders and was not much in favour of peeling hulls which he believed to possibly cause more problems than it solved.

However that said you must engage a surveyor and act from his professional opinion

 

[DAKA]

No boat has ever (yet) been sunk by osmosis.

get a quote for it to be fixed professionally, and deduct that from your offer.

I go along with that and add with maybe 60% of buyers being put off the you should be making an offer to reflect the reduced market.
Your offer should be a LOT less than the value of the boat less repairs.
Even when repaired the fact it has had osmosis will still put many off buying.

That said once the boat is yours then repairs are most likely not necessary and many boats kept on inland rivers are lifted out for 5 months of the winter and dry out.
Odd patches can be DIY repaired and with in a few years of winter lift out drying , all traces of osmosis may well bypass future surveys.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Have a read at this here: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/BuyingBlisterBoat.htm

In my little encoutering with British builds who suffered blistering from late eighty onwards it is normally more a case of first skin problem. So is normally very easily resolvable. But this normally depends how much a boat is left in the water, and how one goes on to solve the problem.
Coincidentally this is not the first 30DS I know of such a problem....

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Should I be concerned that the 1986 Princess 30DS that I am thinking of buying is showing signs of osmosis? The broker has told me it is not a big issue - he has a Seamaster that has had this problem for 15 years. Of course he has the sellers interest at heart (and his commission). We will use the boat only on the river and as he suggested that the repair could cost £10,000, I am reluctant to go ahead with this course of action. Of course, the boat has all we need and has been well kept and serviced. Any thoughts?

How do you know it's got osmosis? Did the broker volunteer this info in which case it might be serious. If your surveyor found it, then it could be very cheap and easy to fix or very expensive and very time consuming depending on what he's found.
I wouldn't necessarily rule the boat out because it might be an oppurtunity to buy the boat at a knock down price. Go and talk to these guys http://www.osmotech.co.uk/ and ask them to look out the boat and give you an estimate. If they say its going to cost you £10k then knock £20k off your offer if not more. AFAIK, osmosis repairs can be time consuming because it can take a long time to dry the hull out so be prepared not to use the boat for a few weeks. But, as I say, you could pick up a bargain, have the repairs done and end up with a boat that's got a good as new hull. One question to ask the broker is why the owner hasn't done the repair

 

[dragoon]

I've had 2 boats with osmosis/blisters - the first the surveyor found them and I got half the cost of the fix knocked off the price. Prudently following all advice at the time, I did nothing about it, it never stopped me sailing, and didn't affect the future sale of the boat. The second didn't have anything when I bought it, so I couldn't use the same negotiating technique, but it did develop blisters later on anyway.

My personal view on this is, if the boat is right for you, make sure you place an offer that reflects the fact it has the issue (reduction of 1/2 the value of the fix seems reasonable to me), just as when you buy a car and find things wrong. Secondly, unless it was causing some real issue somehow (can't see how), I would never spend money to fix it - most boats get it at some point and it's not the biggy that some people will have you believe (who generally want your business to fix it).

Good luck!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[towzer]

Two boats that I have had ,were found to have osmosis when they were surveyed. The first boat (which was my first boat a Seamaster 27)was ony small areas which I treated myself following the suveryors recomondations. The 2nd was much worse and was done by specailists,on both occasions I got alot more than the cost of the treatment off the boat price.
Beware you will not be able to use your boat for months if a full treatment is required.

Dont be frightened of it ,use it to your advantage on the boat price haggle

 

[Cashbuyer]

Thank you

Thanks for the replies to my dilema re osmosis. Very helpful. I think my gut instinct is to walk away - which I have found in the past to be my best course of action - always go with your first thought! The boat also has two petrol engines with outdrives so I suspect some more bills will be on the horizon... Thanks again guys. I'll keep on lookin'

 

[oldgit]

Ha Ha Ha....worst joke of the year so far.

Osmosis. .........we can live with

"The boat also has two petrol engines with outdrives " ......You have got to be joking..
A mess lying in wait some for unsuspecting poor sod ! Worth £10K on good day.
How much were they asking ?
Avoid like the plague.

 

[ian38_39]

Osmosis. .........we can live with

"The boat also has two petrol engines with outdrives " ......You have got to be joking..
A mess lying in wait some for unsuspecting poor sod ! Worth £10K on good day.
How much were they asking ?
Avoid like the plague.

So because it has 2 petrol engines with outdrives it is a mess?

The OP stated that he would only be using the boat in fresh water. Petrol engines make sense for river use, cheaper to buy, cost virtually the same to run, cleaner, quieter, less vibration, not enveloped in smoke for the duration of your trip, should I go on?
The only downside is availability of fuel.

Most boats kept in Fresh water will eventually develop osmosis, due to the smaller size of fresh water molecules over salt I think but am prepared to be corrected.

Get the survey done to find how bad the osmosis is, if it is not that bad then any faults on the petrol engines will cost a lot less to fix than the equivalent diesel units, be careful of the outdrives and make sure they have been maintained properly but thanks to them you have more room inside the boat.

Then decide if you are prepared to bring your fuel to the boat by Jerry can.

Unfortunately due to the ill informed rantings of people like Oldgit it will be more difficult to sell than a diesel boat but if you buy it cheaply enough then you can sell it cheaply, it is probably valued about 10k under a diesel powered version but in order to sell it again work more on £15k less as a price to pay.

Ian

 

[Cashbuyer]

osmosis

Not proceeding with the purchase now guys. Thanks for the replies.

 

[oldgit]

" ill informed rantings of people like Oldgit "

If the boat is up for sale with the plastic worm,it is a fair bet that the owner cannot afford to get that particular job done or any others.Therefore he will be very reluctant to spend anything at all on the boat.Probably nothing has been done by way of maintaince or servicing for ages and that means those 290 or 280 outdrives and Volvo petrol lumps will have been lying around quietly disintegrating.So not only are the two most expensive items on the boat unknown quantities but the hull itself is suspect.
Still on the good side bet the interior cushions look very nice.
Having been there in the past with money pits exactly like this boat,any "ranting" is merely to warn others of the multiple pitfalls that await the unwary,a keen buyer could still buy the boat,by adding up the cost of 2 x major rebuilds plus sorting the hull and deducting it from the asking price.Waiting to get all the stuff sorted when you want be out boating is blimming frustrating to put it mildly.

 

[David_Jersey]

Not proceeding with the purchase now guys. Thanks for the replies.

Very sensible - with boats it's very easy to buy someone else's problems.

Having said that, a touch of plastic worm wouldn't always put me off - just have to be well reflected in the price, with my starting position being the equivalent price of one without Osmosis, less repairs and money for my aggro / the risk of being worse than anticipated..........of course not to say that I would then get the repairs fixed But at least I would have a boat I could later sell without crucifying myself.

But in this case I would be more (or at least equually) concerned about 2 old engines and 2 old outdrives - all those go pop (or are just like Trigger's Broom over a few years ) would make an Osmosis fix look cheap.........

 

[ian38_39]

Oldgit, it was the fact that as soon as petrol was mentioned you assumed publicly that it was a mess.

I run a petrol 310 Statesman and everything that needs doing to it is done, it is serviced annually, both drives will be inspected and have their oil and anodes changed and every other year the bellows will be changed, If anything was wrong with the drives or engine's then it would be attended to immediately.

I take your point that if it was on sale with osmosis it is probably so bad that it is not economically viable or that the owner just couldn't afford to have it repaired but that would be the same if it had diesel engines in.

At the age of the boat then any boat runs the risk of falling into the hands of people that can not afford to maintain it but if I had to change engines I would prefer to be changing petrols than diesels due to the fact that they will be about 1/3rd of the cost.

I have been very happy with my petrol engined boat and it has done exactly what I wanted it too but as with most boats there will come a time that I want to sell it, while I appreciate that it would not be your cup of tea I would rather that any potential purchaser made up their mind on fact rather than being told that it was a joke by someone who new nothing about the boat.