Ore and Alde entrance...advice for first timer please!

xyachtdave

xyachtdave

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I’ve not been in here before and would normally just be brave and trail blaze this myself with the pilot book in the cockpit!

However the ECP suggests ‘frequent massive changes’ and essential consulting of recent surveys... which have not taken place this year for obvious reasons.

Can anyone local offer any reassuring words of wisdom for XYD and his 2 metre draft boat please?

Thanks!
 
Just follow your instinct and blaze the trail as you describe, you'll not go far wrong.

There's far too much hype and mythology talked and written about this place. Most of it is just that; hype and mythology.
It gets a reputation because careless people are careless about the manner in which they enter or exit and sometimes get stuck.

There's no witchcraft about it. Enter or leave on a rising tide is a good starting plan...
However it would be a daunting place to get pinned on a shingle bank so just ensure you don't!

The latest surveys are readily available on t'internet (Visit My Harbour.com being one of the best) and unless there's been a huge storm since they were made the bottom won't have changed appreciably, just as with any other chart. You can also call up the harbourmaster if you really feel the need for up to the minute advice.

Just don't be too adventurous on your timings, allow a decent margin of (depth) error but above all comply with the bouyage. PUNCTILIOUSLY.
You don't have to be much off track on the sight-lines to find shallower water so be accurate - really accurate at keeping to the tracks given and don't allow yourself to be swept off it by the often fairly strong cross current. Drift angles of 30 degrees are not unlikely with a 2.5Kt tide if you're taking it slowly - in my book you're better having the confidence to proceed at a sensible clip and keep large drift-angles to the minimum. Don't let the tide sag you below the required track.

It's just careful and thoroughly aware boat-handling, that's all.

Make yourself aware of the current flow in the river too, it'll be hoofing out at 3-4 or more Kts for some time after low tide and pouring in at the same rate long after high tide - progress in the narrows of the entrance and soon inside can be quite alarming/surprising in both directions. Throttle setting tends to be either idle and hurtling ahead or full ahead and barely making headway depending on how the current is running! The strong current area doesn't extend much beyond the shingle banks near the entrance. Big, sudden cross currents exist there too - bit it's fun!

DON'T look too much at precipitous and alrming gravel banks close by - as long as you're on track. Sometimes you're in 5-8 or more metres of water a mere boat length from the shore.

It feels a bit of a challenge first time but if you take the published advice and are accurate in your track-keeping there is not much to be concerned about. Once you've done it once you'll relish coming back for more. What you'll discover inside is more that worth the effort, believe me!
 
Came out over the bar today.
Anytime after mid flood tide and you'll have plenty of water. Min depth today was 4m at 1200.
The red is the start of the bar so you can head directly for that, no need to head to the SWM. From the red straight to the green watching out the tide doesn't push you off course. I then head in to the beach and run along that until I get near to where the water floods in adjacent to the Ness. I.e. past all the Knolls. I then cut across to the confused water on the starboard side and enjoy the sleigh ride. It's deep here. Onwards anywhere then along the main channel.
On the way back out from Havergate island I run along the Ness side of the channel about a boat length off the shingle. The current is slacker here. Across the confused water again before heading back across to the beach side of the channel and then cutting across to the green.
To me the worst bit is not the bar, but out by the SWM where the sea kicks up in the deeper water, particularly when wind over tide.
 
Ignorance is bliss. I was carrying a passenger who wanted to be in Orford the next day, so my first time was on the ebb with an onshore wind in a 22' Cirrus. I had to use 9.99 hp to get in but we made it, but drawing only 3' 6".
 
Dave, the most recent official surveys are those shown on the the chartlets downloadable from the ECP website. And as you rightly say, none have been done since. Visit my Harbour nor anyone else will have anything newer. In a normal year Imrays and ECP get those surveys even before the UKHO, so months before any new chart is produced. Sound advice above, just be the good seaman that you are, enter and leave on the flood (last hour at the Ore, last 2-3 hours at the Deben) and not at all in strong onshore winds.
 
koj10]1
Cantata said:
enter and leave on the flood (last hour at the Ore, last 2-3 hours at the Deben) and not at all in strong onshore winds.
Click to expand...
First and last I agree with entirely, but I think the 'last hour' is rather overstated. If ballyabroad (post #3) had 4m then depth is probably not much of a problem, even given possible errors in his echosounder. Last year I was surprised to find that my 1.7m boat was OK 2 hrs after low water on most tides, certainly good on half-tide.
There are harbourmaster numbers published in various pilotage books, these guys will know exactly what the current state of the botom is - so call them if concerned, they have the latest detail from the fishermen who go in and out scraping the gravel daily..
 
Thanks everyone, the ECF at its best and most helpful.

Worth checking here, I didn’t want the locals walking their dog down the beach pointing at me saying something along the lines of ...

‘Doesn’t he know the buoys are wildly off station this year and he’s heading for that new shingle bank that’s not on the 2019 chartlet, crazy fool!’
 
In addition to the above, a further source of information is the Orford harbourmaster (ring him, he won't mind at all) knows what he is doing and in the past has shown us the best track in relation to the buoys - more of an S shape rather than join the dots.
It is shallow where you expect it to be deep and vice versa (and therefore a little disconcerting at first)
No harm in having a quick check on the inlet strainer before embarking on entry/exit as you will need full engine power available and for quite a time, not just a quick blast.
 
I always think the best option is have a look at low tide, anywhere that's unfamiliar. Gives a far greater understanding of the place and any bits that a still wet you know you're safe around high water!
 
Think it is rather easier currently than some times in the past, so previous doom and gloom instructions may be less relevant at the moment.

In my ignorant youth, I took my lift keel Sonata with 9hp outboard up and down the Ore/Alde, and on the way back out faced up to a 6kn incoming tide, leaving me with 0.1kn over the ground. By the time we got to the entrance the ebb had started, wind against tide, and we were stuck in a standing wave - our course determined soley by the whims of the water. The red light of the old echo sounder wirred up and down with the waves as the current took us over a particularly shallow patch. Fortunately the keel had jammed in the up position (again) so only a bit over 2ft was needed, and this is what the echo sounder went down to. Much relief on the other side. Don't think the Sonata would have lasted very long if it had grounded in those conditions.
 
Can anyone give me a comparison of the rate of the flood into the Ore compared to the Deben? I know my engine will just push me out of the Deben against a flood tide (haven’t tried springs) but it would be good to know whether the Ore is similar or faster
 
Sniper said:
Can anyone give me a comparison of the rate of the flood into the Ore compared to the Deben? I know my engine will just push me out of the Deben against a flood tide (haven’t tried springs) but it would be good to know whether the Ore is similar or faster
Click to expand...
I think they are broadly similar, but in the case of the Ore the strong current extends much of the way in while the Deben broadens out somewhat. This means that leaving on the flood from perhaps the Butley involves quite a slog.
 
For future reference can anyone tell me at what stage the tide goes slack. I left a little early when trying to leave the other day and arrived at the entrance about half hour before HW at the bar to find the tide was still roaring in, making to almost the entrance only to have the current push me back. I bounced a number of times before the tide eased enough to let me out. I wasn't in any danger just frustrated (and a little disorientated to see the water rushing past the right way and the beach going the wrong way).
 
We have often left the Deben in the last hour of flood, in order to make our way south, in fact, we will be doing it in a couple of days' time. 27hp helps.
 
with a little luck I should be at the Deben entrance around 8 o/c tomorrow morning. Intended to make my way there this afternoon but just too bloody gusty!
 
We exited the Ore last Thursday (30th July) at approx 1 hour after (no more than that) LW Orford Haven Bar. Flow was still in the ebb direction at Weir. We saw a minimum of 1.6m depth between Weir and Oxley.

LW Orford Haven Bar 14:00, 1.0m.
LW Harwich 14:24, 1.1m.
There was minimal surge showing on the live tide gauge (Tide - Harwich Haven Authority).
 
Took Marmalade in this weekend - saw about 3m in parts at high water (ie 1m under us). Came out on the Saturday afternoon tide - about 1/2 hr before HW and saw 2.5m least ie 0.5 under us.

the shallowest part seemed to be in the river near the confused water - once out of the mouth and heading out towards the SHB (outbound) there seemed plenty of water.
 
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