Orca attack

[rogerthebodger]

Hardly simple Rog, even with a transom hung rudder it's non-trivial. You might as well advocate for people to remove their rudders for the duration and use steering oars.

OK but what would be the difficulties be ?

I have a skeg hung rudder

Cannot ee why a transom hung rudder could not be made of steel

The only issue may be the buoyancy of a hollow rudder.
I made a steel auxiliary rudder for my self steering this cane with a GRP operating blade which would float anyway

 

[Wansworth]

What about sheathing the grp rudder andskeg in thin stainless

 

[rogerthebodger]

What about sheathing the grp rudder andskeg in thin stainless

Why not just make the rudder from from stainless with stainless airfoil ribs welded to the stainless steel rudder shaft then clad in thin stainless sheet welded all round then pressure test

https://flic.kr/p/WooTio

Test fit before cladding

 

[Biggles Wader]

You may prevent them biting bits off the rudder but a couple of tons of whale leaning on it will still damage it beyond usability.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Why not just make the rudder from from stainless with stainless airfoil ribs welded to the stainless steel rudder shaft then clad in thin stainless sheet welded all round then pressure test

https://flic.kr/p/WooTio

Test fit before cladding

Not being funny. Be It any thing you made they can easy break if they want .

 

[Graham376]

Cannot see why a transom hung rudder could not be made of steel

So they rip it off complete and leave a large hole in the transom?

One boat in the yard has stainless rods through the rudder which protruded either side and aft. Think this could be counterproductive when they get hooked.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Whale of a tale for couple yachting off Cape Town

If a 40 ton whale can breach onto a sail boat and stay afloat and motor back into harbour what makes you think a lighter killer whale cam bite through a steel rudder. The steel has more strength then GRP with a foam core

I know as my previous boat had a GRP rudder and I had to rebuild dur to damage and water inclusion

Anyone know what the bite force of a Orca would be

It was found that the largest great whites have a bite force of up to 1.8 tonnes

Am Orca is modele at up to 9 tonne

 

[penfold]

It's a built in weak point argument; which would you rather have, a bust rudder or a hole with oggin pouring through it because the rudder was strong and transferred all the load to the rudderstock and the hull gland(or pintles for transom hung rudders)?

 

[rogerthebodger]

So they rip it off complete and leave a large hole in the transom?

This will depend on the strength of the rudder attachments to the transom and the strength of the Transom

Spade rudders that extend below the transom grounding the rudder would rip the transom off if the fitting is too strong

 

[webcraft]

Its more about why people are discussing/promoting illegal activites on a public forum ?

'illegal activities' ?

People are discussing how to protect their boats, their homes and their families and crew. Laws made by armchair ecologists in Madrid bear little relation to reality.

Even if a Guardia Civil boat was in the area, I would use 'illegal' deterrence rather than passively have my rudder destroyed and boat possibly sunk. The fine would probably be less than the cost of a tow and the subsequent repair.

- W

 

[rogerthebodger]

'illegal activities' ?

People are discussing how to protect their boats, their homes and their families and crew. Laws made by armchair ecologists in Madrid bear little relation to reality.

Even if a Guardia Civil boat was in the area, I would use 'illegal' deterrence rather than passively have my rudder destroyed and boat possibly sunk. The fine would probably be less than the cost of a tow and the subsequent repair.

- W

Self defense if perfectly legal whoever you are defending yourself against a danger

If I and being storked by a lion in the bush I have the legal right to defend myself even if the lion is protected same with orca, Sharks or crocodiles

 

[Rappey]

'illegal activities' ?

People are discussing how to protect their boats, their homes and their families and crew. Laws made by armchair ecologists in Madrid bear little relation to reality.

Illegal activities- Suggestions in previous posts using explosive devices etc.


RYA -
Orcas are a protected species under International, EU, Spanish and Portuguese law and as such it is illegal to take any action which may harm or disturb these marine mammals.

• Verify with your insurer that you have appropriate cover for wildlife damage and emergency towage.
• Consider your responsibilities for crew safety and legal obligations for protected species.
• Undertake passage planning to avoid times and places of high risk. Do you need to risk entering an area where Orca incidents have occurred?

I did a lot of reading about orca a while back and as a result google spams/sends me many varied articles about anything to do with orca.
If its relevant information then there is no harm in posting it even if you dont agree with it.

What i can kind of conclude is that after all the media articles and 1751 posts here its still unknown why they go for rudders and still no closer to a solution than when it all started.
It is a great thread though with a lot of video and debate

 

[[3889]]

'illegal activities' ?

People are discussing how to protect their boats, their homes and their families and crew. Laws made by armchair ecologists in Madrid bear little relation to reality.

Even if a Guardia Civil boat was in the area, I would use 'illegal' deterrence rather than passively have my rudder destroyed and boat possibly sunk. The fine would probably be less than the cost of a tow and the subsequent repair.

- W

Agreed. And why endless far fetched deterrents are discussed I don't know. Firecrackers work immediately as deterrents. This was established by Spanish fisherman 2 yesrs ago and has now been almost universally accepted by sailors who navigate the affected areas.

 

[Adios]

Agreed. And why endless far fetched deterrents are discussed I don't know. Firecrackers work immediately as deterrents. This was established by Spanish fisherman 2 yesrs ago and has now been almost universally accepted by sailors who navigate the affected areas.

do you have a link to info relating to the fishermen mentioned?

 

[Graham376]

Talking to one of the Faro charter boat skippers today, he says they are staying inside the Ria Formosa for the time being as orcas have been seen in 5m depth, close to Culatra island. Evidently some are inshore of the tuna nets which stretch for several miles to the east.

 

[webcraft]

Talking to one of the Faro charter boat skippers today, he says they are staying inside the Ria Formosa for the time being as orcas have been seen in 5m depth, close to Culatra island. Evidently some are inshore of the tuna nets which stretch for several miles to the east.

That's worrying, but hopefully this is a 'non-interacting' pod

Who's going to go and find out though?

- W

 

[Greybeardy]

The use of waterproof 'flash bangs' or 'thunder flashes' sounds like a viable deterrent? I understand that north American fishermen use them when troubled by leopard seals interfering with catch hauling. Perhaps the intelligent orcas, in consequence, might learn to desist from 'playing' with yachts. Alternatively, they might be antagonised to the extent that they just ram the hull & sink the boat they are easily powerful enough to do this?

 

[greeny]

do you have a link to info relating to the fishermen mentioned?

I doubt you'll find any written admittance of using firecrackers from a traceable source. Word of mouth and chats over a beer in boatyard/ fishdock is the closest you'll get. Fishermen still going out, Charter boats not. Maybe because the charter skippers can't use firecrackers in front of paying public passengers?

 

[greeny]

What about sheathing the grp rudder andskeg in thin stainless

I saw someone doing exactly that in Portimao boatyard a month or so ago but he was using galvanised sheet. It didn't look too convincing to me. Even if he managed to beef up the rudder sufficiently, the rudder stock and surrounding hull would become the next weak link. I'd rather just lose the rudder than a hole in the boat.

 

[Seven Spades]

I have seen someone experimenting with what look like nails on their rudder, similar to the anti pigeon devices. They were stainless rods with spikes. Obviously it woudl add drag, i wonder if their skin is tough enough for it not to bother them or if it will work.